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[0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:56 pm
by Tnarg
Here are a number of track junctions built for 0.13. They are made to be placed on top of each other. The only limit is the 45Deg crossover can't be placed over the 90Deg crossover. The chain signals are placed with care to make the junctions dead lock free while allowing multiple trains to use the junction at the same time. For example a train going North to South will not slow a train going South to North (even if you are not using the crossover). It is best (but not needed) to keep 90degees between exits.
- Junctions.png (779.56 KiB) Viewed 24163 times
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:06 pm
by Tnarg
Here are a load of stations for a single engine, 2 wagon trains. They are not compact or the quickest or even the most balanced. What they are is cheap and do the job. You can upgrade the inserters later and you will have stations that will have no problem supplying a large base will all it's ore needs.
- unload.png (2.29 MiB) Viewed 23853 times
- load.png (1.3 MiB) Viewed 23853 times
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:50 pm
by Tinyboss
I've had that kind of roundabout cause deadlocks even with 1-1 trains:
It's rare enough that it's hard to troubleshoot, but common enough on my busy network that I'm not going to use these anymore. I think the scenario is:
1. Train wants to make a right turn at the roundabout.
2. Another train is blocking the exit block, but will be out of the way within a second or so.
3. Train (smartly) decides to make a quick loop around the roundabout instead of slowing down and waiting.
4. Train (stupidly) deadlocks on itself.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:03 pm
by Tnarg
I have never seen that happen and I only use these kind of junctions. As long as you have a chain signal going in it should never enter till it can leave. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:52 pm
by MeduSalem
I'm always using a regular 4-way crossing as junction:
- Crossing.jpg (166.88 KiB) Viewed 23736 times
Has a bit higher throughput than roundabouts because of how 2 opposing trains may take a left turn + 2 trains taking a right turn without blocking each other.
That said... trains can't turn around at the junction... which in my opinion is a bad thing anyways because a U turn in a roundabout completely blocks all other 3 directions for that period... urgh.
Sadly I've no blueprint strings for them. Blueprint Strings should be really integrated into vanilla.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:25 am
by Miravlix
Just a random thought, why do people create a loop based system and use two lines 4 rails tiles apart?
Wouldn't it make more sense to use a half circle's length between the rails.
Your intersections don't become this messy signal train wreck, because there is *huge* amount of space between the tracks.
It does make a 4-way an automatic roundabout though, but since you seem to like those anyway even when they are flawed, that can hardly be the reasons for "fighting" what is the natural distance between rails in a loop based system.
I've actually started using the natural loop distance even with dual headed trains.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:34 am
by MeduSalem
Miravlix wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to use a half circle's length between the rails.
I thought of that once as well... Even had some concepts for that already... like that the dead space between the two rails could be used by Stations and have a half circle before or after the station running over to the other track if a train needs to make a U turn.
Somehow I never really found that the experiments looked aesthetically pleasing... Here are some remains:
- Concept.jpg (87.09 KiB) Viewed 23702 times
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:15 pm
by Jupiter
Tinyboss wrote:I've had that kind of roundabout cause deadlocks even with 1-1 trains:
It's rare enough that it's hard to troubleshoot, but common enough on my busy network that I'm not going to use these anymore. I think the scenario is:
1. Train wants to make a right turn at the roundabout.
2. Another train is blocking the exit block, but will be out of the way within a second or so.
3. Train (smartly) decides to make a quick loop around the roundabout instead of slowing down and waiting.
4. Train (stupidly) deadlocks on itself.
Wait, if a trains optimal path is blocked, will it actually pick another route even if that route is also blocked (by the same obstacle)? This is what your 1-1 train seems to be doing. What is the logic behind that? Why pick another blocked route when your optimal route is blocked? Does anyone know the design decisions behind that?
EDIT:
I just tested your setup. If you have chainsignals near the entrances to your round-about then that doesn't happen. You either forgot a chainsignal on your entrance to the south or your scenario isn't what is happening.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:51 pm
by Aikonn
One train deadlock is possible in roundabout.
I was able to test my idea:
Cause of deadlock would be breaking train path while in middle of roundabout. This could be easily done by bitter attack or player rebuilding rails.
Roundabout with fewer chain signals
see the picture bellow
1.) train enters junction
2.) blue path is broken
3.) train choose different (yellow) path but the new exit is already missed
4.) train cannot make complete circle because his path is blocked by his own tail
5.) train still moves a little and stops at chain signal but this makes him miss his original exit (blue path)
6.) repairing broken (blue) path will not help - train is in deadlock
Roundabout with 4 more chain signal
4 more signals makes junction more resistant, I was not able to deadlock train using single breakpoint like in previous case. Train would still temporarily deadlock but would stop sooner and not miss blue path exit. So repairing blue path would free it from deadlock.
Yet I was able to dealock train with 2 rail break points or 1 break point and another train:
see the picture bellow
1.) there is shortes blue path but it is blocked by wagon so train choose yellow path and enters junction
2.) breaking rail on current (yellow) path will force train to recalculate
3.) if train is already after blue path exit it will deadlock itself
4.) removing wagon will make blue path best choise
5.) repairing broken yellow path will not help - train remain deadlocked by its own tail
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:20 pm
by Jupiter
Aikonn wrote:One train deadlock is possible in roundabout.
I was able to test my idea:
Cause of deadlock would be breaking train path while in middle of roundabout. This could be easily done by bitter attack or player rebuilding rails.
These are not situations an intersection should be able to handle. If it can, great, but you don't design an intersection with those scenarios in the back of your head. Those are exceptional circumstances which should not happen in the first place.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:43 pm
by Xantaxia
For my first ever post here's a design I thought up.
I have a video of it running but as this is my first post I cannot post a link.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:49 pm
by steinio
Looks nice
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:47 pm
by hitzu
A train turning left would block too many directions.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:12 pm
by Xantaxia
steinio wrote:Looks nice
Thankyou
hitzu wrote:A train turning left would block too many directions.
True but it is only slightly worse than the one MeduSalem posted and still better than a loop (unless you want the trains to be able to do U-turns)
IE: Instead of being able to handle 2 turning left and 2 turning right mine can only handle 1 turning left and 2 turning right etc.
It also uses less signals.
For the video add this to the end of the youtube address :- /watch?v=hCBZB1Iebto
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:35 am
by walljaik
this is what I use for 4-4 junctions, works smooth if u keep the distance between train signals once out of the junction.
*edit: just saw that this is not the last version. will reupdate a new one.
Re: [0.13] Track Junctions Blueprint Strings
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:16 pm
by deer_buster
Tnarg wrote:I have never seen that happen and I only use these kind of junctions. As long as you have a chain signal going in it should never enter till it can leave. I'll have to keep an eye out for it.
If you put a signal on the 4 corners (NE, SE, SW, NW cardinal directions), you should run into a lot less deadlocks at those roundabouts....I love them...