LTN book i resigned for 1-4 trains .
What do you think?
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:45 am
by pro5
(bad english)
1. I tested 'Requester". I confused.
Station's "Output signal" never emmit requested resources. Emit only wagons bits.
Question: why you connect combinator to "station output"? Combinator never receive resources signal.
2. Demo map is very confused. Not clean. I not understand how it works. I think, demo map builded using templates from advanced setups. But you forgot delete trash elements. My mind stucked, because i don't know, its "trash element" or "required element"
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:01 am
by pro5
more confused...
Request thresold must be negative or positive?
Demo map used negative and positive. Screenshow show positive. Settings for default request thresold is positive.
Blue thresold icon at screenshot show ">=". But ingame show "<=". I found some video. Some players use positive, some players - negative.
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:34 am
by Optera
Output signals have been explained to death in several threads. It will always show what should be inside the train when it's ready to leave.
To get loading signals use output - stop's train content, for unloading stop's train content - output.
This allows for simple, only 1 arithmetic combinator, designs supporting almost count perfect loading/unloading.
Everything in the 1.8.0 demo has purpose.
Requests can be positive or negative for backwards compatibility. A Negative threshold is shown nicely alongside the requested item counts that's all there is to it. The icon was changed to <= when negative thresholds where introduced. The screenshots simply are from an older version.
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:42 am
by pro5
Thank you for answer. All question clear, except question 1.
To get loading signals use output - stop's train content, for unloading stop's train content - output.
I not understand.
Example. Demo map 1.8.0
Station "Furnaces Unloading" have connect: "output" to "arihpmetic combinator". But "output" never emmit resources. Only wagons bits.
Why you use combinator? You may delete combinator. and use regular (not filtered) inserters. Because the combinator emit resources which contain wagon.
Why you use combinator? You may delete combinator. and use regular (not filtered) inserters. Because the combinator emit resources which contain wagon.
Like I said, it's to prevent unloading wrong items. The demo save uses smart loading stations so it's highly unlikely a wrong item will be loaded in the first place. It never hurts to have a security on unloading as well.
Like I said, it's to prevent unloading wrong items.
But this setup not working. I put trash item to wagon, and filtered inserters unload trash item. Because combinator emit all items contained in wagon. Requester v1 and v2 have wrong design. This setup equals: "unload all resources".
Probably, this setup work in old version. But you may test - its not working in current version.
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:01 am
by Optera
For performance the output is updated once, when a train arrives at a stop.
It will work only for trash in a train when it arrives, which is the only possible scenario in automated system anyway.
i tested. Output signal of "Request station" don't emit requested resources. Emit only encoded wagon.
Porbably you not understand me. And i not understand you. (sorry for my bad englisj)
i tested. Output signal of "Request station" don't emit requested resources. Emit only encoded wagon.
Porbably you not understand me. And i not understand you. (sorry for my bad englisj)
Yeah it would only emit forbidden ressources (this which need to stay IN the train) if there are any.
Yeah it would only emit forbidden ressources (this which need to stay IN the train) if there are any.
Understand.
But how it possible? LTN can create path from 1 provider to few requesters?
You could load some items, deliver them but there is no space to unload them.
Then the delivery will time out and the train with stuff still in it will return to depot.
Now it could be assigned to a new delivery with stuff still in it and the armageddon begins.
Advanced stations. (Separated thresold + Prevent big overflow)
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:31 am
by pro5
(sorry for my bad english)
I created universal stations.
+you can set separated thresold for each item.
+you may load low-stacked items(barels) prevent big-overflow. Regular setup have problem. Example: if load to wagon barels using 6 inserters (20 capacity each), it can overload 6x20=120 barels. 120 barels occupy 12 slots! You should set 12 locked slot per wagon! Or reduce inserter capacity from 20 to 1-2. I solved this problem, added back-ward inserters. This inserter unload overflow items.
- This setup using Bob + Angels + Loader Redux + 80 slots wagon. But its not required. You may rebuild setup for vanila.
- Filtered inserters have ~120 degree angle. Why not 90 or 45? Because degree <90 is very fast, and filters no have time for update(80 or 45 no have time for update). It is factorio optimization. You may set 90 degree. Its works fine too. But i set margin 120.
- To load/unload items use only _right_ silo (not left silo).
- Signal A and B may be set more than current available inserters size.
- LTN setting "Finish loading" must be default (true).
Re: Advanced stations. (Separated thresold + Prevent big overflow)
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:36 am
by pro5
This requester have small problem: viewtopic.php?f=214&t=64306
To fix this problem, set default common threshold to max value of listed individual threshold.
Example. If wood threshold == -5000, iron == -8000. Then common thresold should be -5000. (-5000 is bigger than -8000)
Re: Advanced stations. (Separated thresold + Prevent big overflow)
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:45 am
by Optera
merged into design thread
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:35 am
by torne
I came up with a simple design for a fluid unloader that supports multiple different fluids without leaving leftovers or requiring Inventory Scanner which I don't think I've seen before:
It works using a decider that's enabled on "R=0" and outputs "everything=1" with the output connected to the input (and the stop's train contents output connected to the input). When a train arrives, this "latches" which fluid is in the train and keeps it set to 1 even after you get down to <0.5 of the liquid remaining, which will keep the pumps enabled. Once the train is completely empty, the default LTN condition of leave when empty will make the train leave as normal. When the train leaves, the lack of the train composition signal from the LTN output triggers R=1 and resets the latch ready for the next train.
I use this in several places to unload lubricant and sulfuric acid at the same stop.
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:58 am
by Optera
In 99.9% this RS-latch design is good enough.
Using this with stop timeout disabled should reliably prevent trains leaving with fluid residue.
To be universal for any mod added locomotive replace "Encoded position of Locomotive" = 0 with "Everything" = 0.
Here's an updated design using the RS Latch alongside an overload protection:
2019-02-19-09-44-59-6513242.png (799.05 KiB) Viewed 9280 times
This little addition prevents partial residue from uneven draining tanks.
Usage:
Set requests to 80-90% capacity (bp uses 80% or -160k).
With very fast uneven drains requests should be set to even lower percentages.
Enable "Schedule Circuit Condition"
Should a train unload more the decider triggers a red signal locking the train in the stop until the fluid is back below request count.
Re: Stations & other LTN based designs
Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:27 pm
by torne
Thanks! I do have the stop timeout disabled indeed, and I use only 1-1 fluid trains so overloads/unbalanced tanks are very unlikely on my network even though I typically do request 100%, but with more tanks I can see it being an issue. That's a nice refinement of the design!
In 99.9% this RS-latch design is good enough.
Using this with stop timeout disabled should reliably prevent trains leaving with fluid residue.
To be universal for any mod added locomotive replace "Encoded position of Locomotive" = 0 with "Everything" = 0.
Here's an updated design using the RS Latch alongside an overload protection:
This little addition prevents partial residue from uneven draining tanks.
Usage:
Set requests to 80-90% capacity (bp uses 80% or -160k).
With very fast uneven drains requests should be set to even lower percentages.
Enable "Schedule Circuit Condition"
Should a train unload more the decider triggers a red signal locking the train in the stop until the fluid is back below request count.
How many fluids can this design do? The BP title says "multifluid"? I typically use the one below that can do 12 fluids (when you add the other side) in my 1-2 or 2-4 train setups
How many fluids can this design do? The BP title says "multifluid"? I typically use this one that can do 12 fluids (when you add the other side) in my 1-2 or 2-4 train setups
The one I posted does 2 and will still work in 0.17.
It can technically be expanded to 4 direct tanker-pump-tank by rotating every 2nd tank, or 12 much slower tanker-pump-piping designs.
Yours is interesting but allowing multiple fluids through one pipe has several problems
a) slow
b) can get stuck with fluid packets lodged between another with nowhere to go
c) 0.17 will even prevent connecting pipes of different fluids