Factorio Forums

Currently, pumps can only be placed onto tiles that straddle the water/land boundary, and as a result poor choices in landfill (or misclicks) result in a state where a blueprint may not be placeable without resorting the use of console or mods (such as waterfill), therefore affecting the ability of a user to receive appropriate achievements in single player.

This is especially bad in multiplayer maps, where it would be possible for users to grief maps by landfilling in a water pump and then removing the pumps. In cases of water-poor maps, it would not be possible to recover from such an incident without admin intervention to restore the water tiles.

I understand that waterfill is not implemented in the base game due to the gamebreaking effects it will have against biters which cannot cross water. As such, it would be nice to have a compromise where a pump can be placed either on a water/land interface (as an offshore pump) or a water/landfill interface (as a well pump). This would solve the potential issues above, and will also make sense from a realism perspective, since the water table remains even after landfill is placed.

Several mods approaching this in different, but equally valid, ways already exist. I don't think it is necessary, or valuable, for the base game.

It also makes a great deal of the nuclear water management challenge vanish, because you can simply landfill a nice clean edge, then have unlimited pump placement on it without any water ... well, there.

They do now have that water tile that allows walking on, though not placed in game by default. They could allow that as a water-fill in game and it wouldn’t be too breaking against biters.

It would remove the challenge of water logistics though...

The main issue that I see, is that AFAIK there is no specific "waterfilled" tile ? It's just "grass-1" ?
Maybe there should be, a gravel of some sort, perhaps ?

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:12 am

They do now have that water tile that allows walking on, though not placed in game by default. They could allow that as a water-fill in game and it wouldn’t be too breaking against biters.

CanalBuilder makes waterfill only place that shallow water, and also permits biters (and everything else) to walk on it. (Possibly by placing the entity you mention.)

This is definitely the fairest type of waterfill, since it slows bugs (and you), but doesn't let you build invulnerable, impenetrable barriers to them. OTOH, Alien Biomes (and possibly vanilla, don't recall now) also place the stuff CanalBuilder makes walkable around every shore, so you pay for your convenience with no longer being able to use chokepoints between water...

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:46 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:12 am

They do now have that water tile that allows walking on, though not placed in game by default. They could allow that as a water-fill in game and it wouldn’t be too breaking against biters.

CanalBuilder makes waterfill only place that shallow water, and also permits biters (and everything else) to walk on it. (Possibly by placing the entity you mention.)

This is definitely the fairest type of waterfill, since it slows bugs (and you), but doesn't let you build invulnerable, impenetrable barriers to them. OTOH, Alien Biomes (and possibly vanilla, don't recall now) also place the stuff CanalBuilder makes walkable around every shore, so you pay for your convenience with no longer being able to use chokepoints between water...

I don’t think vanilla does. Does Alien Biomes? I ended up installing another mod that did it for me, wasn’t Canalbuilder but can’t remember the name.

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:09 pm

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:46 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:12 am

They do now have that water tile that allows walking on, though not placed in game by default. They could allow that as a water-fill in game and it wouldn’t be too breaking against biters.

CanalBuilder makes waterfill only place that shallow water, and also permits biters (and everything else) to walk on it. (Possibly by placing the entity you mention.)

This is definitely the fairest type of waterfill, since it slows bugs (and you), but doesn't let you build invulnerable, impenetrable barriers to them. OTOH, Alien Biomes (and possibly vanilla, don't recall now) also place the stuff CanalBuilder makes walkable around every shore, so you pay for your convenience with no longer being able to use chokepoints between water...

I don’t think vanilla does. Does Alien Biomes? I ended up installing another mod that did it for me, wasn’t Canalbuilder but can’t remember the name.

Alien Biomes definitely places walkable shallow water on the shore. If Vanilla doesn't, that'd explain why CanalBuilder seemed like a super-hard but probably balanced change, as opposed to just nerfing my waterfill.

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:21 pm

It also makes a great deal of the nuclear water management challenge vanish, because you can simply landfill a nice clean edge, then have unlimited pump placement on it without any water ... well, there.

It's been a while since I tried but can't you do that now with pre-planning? Place the pump, then landfill. At the very least you could landfill everything but the single square the pump is on, but back when I tried it you didn't even need to avoid that one, and the pump still worked perfectly on the land.

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:17 pm

slippycheeze wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:21 pm

It also makes a great deal of the nuclear water management challenge vanish, because you can simply landfill a nice clean edge, then have unlimited pump placement on it without any water ... well, there.

It's been a while since I tried but can't you do that now with pre-planning? Place the pump, then landfill. At the very least you could landfill everything but the single square the pump is on, but back when I tried it you didn't even need to avoid that one, and the pump still worked perfectly on the land.

Apparently so, yes. I thought that didn't work, but was clearly wrong.

Ultros wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:09 pm

Currently, pumps can only be placed onto tiles that straddle the water/land boundary, and as a result poor choices in landfill (or misclicks) result in a state where a blueprint may not be placeable ...


... pump can be placed either on a water/land interface (as an offshore pump) or a water/landfill interface (as a well pump). This would solve the potential issues above, and will also make sense from a realism perspective, since the water table remains even after landfill is placed.

Yes please.
Crently you can have an Ofshore pump in the grass already. Place pump then landfill. Let allow place the pump to the place where water originaly was. Resul will be same. Process easyer.

Given that the following are now true:

• Landfill is a separate tile type than regular ground.
• Offshore pumps can be built on landfill if the pump is built on shore and then the shore is landfilled in (becoming a Water Well Pump).

I would suggest that to simplify pump related blueprints the Offshore Pump be allowed to be directly built on top of landfill as a Water Well Pump, rather than going through the extra effort to build the pump first, then landfill on top of it. The end result is the same, so this just seems like a gameplay improvement. Offshore pumps still could not be built on top of other land tile types, so there would be no change to what's possible to be built without mods.

TL;DR

Allow for Water source even after landfilling.

What ?

When you try and place an offshore pump, treat landfill as both water and land.

Why ?

I find it annoying that you have to be extremely careful when landfilling to avoid deleting all local sources of water. given that Offshore pumps aren't removed when landfilling, you should be able to place them in the same way.

[ick] Moved to Implemented in 2.0

See https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-383