Friday Facts #414 - Spoils of Agriculture

[Cobaltur]

I love to see more biologial recipes and the spoilage.

To have alternate fuels or chemicaks for examaple would be fine.
The spoilage is a great idea and mechanic. I don't like to have a mass production which results only building more and more big buffers.
The spoilage enforces you to have more just-in-time production lines, to scale complete procuction lines and to tune the logistics. Excellent - just my opinion.

But how does "white-line" works for stacks one the belt? see https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-393

[Sliverious]

As I posted a couple of FFFs back, I feel conflicted about the expansion. On one hand I want to enjoy the expansion and on the other I feel none of the upcoming paid features excite me. The same goes for this planet and the spoilage mechanic. It might be an interesting mechanic once I get to play with it, but for now the best I can do is "yeah, whatever" like you do with clearing biters or filling lakes in the late game. It's not something to look forward to, but a part of the path towards the end state of the game that you just have to get done.

[FasterJump]

Will it be possible to regrow trees on Nauvis?

[DaemosDaen]

I have like most of what we have seen, but this is the first I'm on the fence about. I like the IDEA of it, but when you get a world large enough it can take minutes to go from outpost to processing. The trees SEEM to regrow, but there is nothing else in the game that does sees like a really odd mechanic compaired to everything else. I could see something going bad on a spaghetti base before getting halfway down the line.

I can see an easy reverse death spiral happening because of this to. Too much waste backstuff causing a lockup of materials. Does stuff in containers spoil? How about stuff in trains? will we ever need trains on this world? If not, will I be very sad? (yes)

We'll just wait and see I guess.

p.s. it's we are gonna waste stuff in recyclers, just make them return nothing, there's no REAL reason for them to return anything not-useful unless this is how we get quality materials on this world.

[ombus]

I hope a grace period exist on the spoilage.. like freshness.. the white bar can be green for like 10 min and then start spoiling... why ? because if not we never will be able to make science with 0% spoilage.

also.. the second fruit will need a liquid for harvest ? mmm

loving the additions !

[BrainlessTeddy]

That looks increadibly interesting. And really fun to play with. The spoilage mechanic while maybe overused, in this context gives the gameplay a really nice interesting twist.

[BrainlessTeddy]

There is one thing tho that I want to add. Why do you need the special landfill? why not have the plants grow only on specific soil and you have to abide. you can't choose where to mine your ores or where you're water and oil comes from. maybe even have the soil destroyed once concrete has been build over it.

[Knuth]

Hi,

I don't like to have a mass production which results only building more and more big buffers.
The spoilage enforces you to have more just-in-time production lines, to scale complete procuction lines and to tune the logistics. Excellent - just my opinion.

I don't have big buffers, I scale as best as possible, with ratio and logical. I don't "speed run", instead "slow run", with optimize. And i dislike game with spoilage exactly because i like adjust production.

Spoilage will require speedy and avoid optimizing
Certainly not the opposite.

But how does "white-line" works for stacks one the belt? see https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-393

Yes, I wondered what about stacks on the belt, the FFF414 doesn't talk about it.
I hope this stacks on the belt will not be abandoned.

[Npl]

let it spoil the right way! why explore vast emptiness without the right spirits!

[Noodlezzz]

Yes, I wondered what about stacks on the belt, the FFF414 doesn't talk about it.
I hope this stacks on the belt will not be abandoned.

I wonder if it hasn't shown up for the past few FFF's because stack inserters will be a very late-game feature, & wont show up on Gleba

[Qatavin]

The first thing that came to my mind wasn't refrigeration, but preservative or longevity modules that would increase ttl. Their usage would of course be constrained by limited module slots that might be better used for other things.

I also like the idea someone had about having a grace period of some kind before spoilage starts to set in, so as long as you keep things moving at a good clip, you can keep them fully fresh until you get to the end product. Having that kind of benchmark to aim for seems like it would make the mechanic even more interesting.

[Ranakastrasz]

Maybe we get some kind of cryogenic belt/boxes/train cars for extra preservation, or you have barrel-l8ke recipes to package for longer trips. The thing that stood out to me was that science would always have to be done on this planet because the shipment time would invariable cause more spoilage otherwise.

I do hope steam cools down when stored in tanks as well lol.

[Blitz4]

The Steam forums are confused about FF #414.

They're primarily worried about knowing if the mechanic is fun to a new player. Is it?


EDIT: I see that people here are worried as well. This is what I posted on Steam.

I like the new spoilage idea. So many that play Factorio have an engineering background and this fits nicely with a new mini-game to accomplish and also follows great game design to slowly add new mechanics as you progress.

There is one aspect of creating challenge that I believe any new mechanic should satisfy

1. Challenging for the pros
2. Fun for the casuals

I have to imagine there's been extensive play testing done by casuals to determine if it's fun. The issue is likely communicating that in a blog post. You can tell a lot of work went into this system, it's highly unlikely that it was lazily added without any testing.

It seems more evidence of how the mechanic functions is needed. To me showing the entire process start to finish of using these new science packs in video form is likely the best way to put people's mind at ease. Alternatively, releasing the DLC in Early Access is another idea.

Your stuff doesnt vanish in games.

It does in The Long Dark.

You have to keep raw or cooked meat outside in the frozen tempature to prevent spoilage as there is no electricity to power the freezers. Over time that frozen meat does decay. How that game handle it is you have a system that adds 50% to the cooked item. To me this is the biggest issue people are afraid of:

The reason why you're optimizing for a better product is because recipe results inherit their freshness from the ingredients. This means that when you craft a product out of a 30% spoiled ingredient, the product will also be 30% spoiled.

If you look at The Long Dark, that last line would say "the product will also be 0% spoiled." (30%-50% = -20% rounded up to 0% spoilage). And it's important you don't eat items too spoiled or you will be sick.

Granted 50% in The Long Dark is too much to be realistic.
Also 0% in Factorio is too little to be realistic.

But is it realism or fun or a challenge that they're after?

EDIT: My understanding of their vocabulary. They are weirdly focused on spoilage when the game should be focused on Freshness. In The Long Dark it doesn't say 30% spoiled (70% fresh). No it moves past that and calls it 70% condition. If you cook a thing between 50%-100% condition it bumps to 100% condition then begins to degrade as well.

[Tohim]

Everything about this planet has been so incredibly adventurous & positively unbelievable so far. I do hope they tweak the Biochamber graphics a bit, though - The large, featureless glass tube looks very strange, especially compared to the Tower's much more grounded & visually interesting greenhouse-like dome.

glass.png (208.7 KiB) Viewed 2024 times

[GregoriusT]

I wonder if the people who post about adding a Freezer realize what will happen if that is added. Because that Freezer would be an inbetween step that got added, meaning the spoilables will probably end up being rebalanced to have the same spoilage duration as the pre-freezer inside the freezer, and the unfrozen spoilables will instead have half the duration. Or to say it in easier to understand terms:

What currently is the case in my example:
2 hours without Freezer

What people hope a Freezer does:
2 hours without Freezer, 4 hours with Freezer

What would likely happen:
1 hour without Freezer, 2 hours with Freezer

[mwls]

But how does "white-line" works for stacks one the belt? see https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-393

Probably will just work the same way as stacks in boxes or assemblers – the whole stack would share an average spoil % value, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Rau]

Will it be possible to disable the spoilage stripe? Or at least hide it on belts?

The usefulness of such an interface element is extremely questionable – the stripe is white-gray, which reduces its visibility, but more importantly, on a densely packed line, items will overlap each other - only half of the entire stripe or item will be visible.



In addition, the aesthetics of a factory with an "not real" element be way worse than the regular factory. Instead of a uniform flow of "just items" you will have a flow of "item + interface element".

[Ghulmeister]

thats an interesting take on the farming mechanic. i guess its better to have a harvester harvest plants in the "wild", compared to having a farm as a building, because the scale of the plants in the farm would not match their counterparts in the wild(unless the farmbuilding was huge).
the spoilage stuff is a bit odd honestly, hope there will be research or other stuff to stop stuff from spoiling/to increase the spoiltimer.
i get that the spoilage doesnt matter much, because plants grow infinitely, but it still feels pretty odd nonetheless.
maybe give us freezers to preserve the products for long trips and stuff? freezertrainwagons? thats not too far fetched imo.

[cheetored20]

So i like this idea, and i think the people freaking out about freshness are forgetting one crucial detail. Biological farming is an infinite source of material. Spoilage just means the belts keep moving.

[frayien]

Love it ! Such a nice way to have a new challenge to the game !