Friday Facts #405 - Whole belt reader, New logistics GUI

[MeduSalem]

Faster subsequent rocket launches = nope
- if you make the expansion such way that more rockets is needed, then rather add new tech, more tonnage ( item capacity) technology to research.
- start of a rocket should stay a precious moment, always. Do not add inflation, rather make it even more precious or even more spectacular. You cant get a holiday every single day, or can you? Imagine Chrismas every day, ... that sucks. That is what you need to keep in mind when thinking about rocket launch.

Dude, I cannot share your sentimentality. After 10 years as a placeholder "end" to the game and with the community pushing to send as many rockets per minute as possible I can easily say that launching a rocket is nothing special anymore. Not even the first time you do it in a each new playthrough.

With the expansion it will be even less special because it is by far not the end of the game; you will have several space platforms to constantly launch rockets/stuff to. You will be happy if you don't have to wait for an animation to finish every time before sending another rocket.

Apart from that it was already written in previous FFs that rockets will be a lot cheaper with the expansion enabled because you will need so many more.

why in the 4th iteration there are inserters in the member list?

Probably because they are holding items in their hand.

Nope. The inserters are on the member list because they likely have Logistic Network conditions enabled.

[Mendel]

Brightness inside rocket silo seems to change between rocket lauches in weird way inside the silo, especially of the doodad below one of the red lights. I guess it is the hatch door, probably. It gets somewhat less bright just as the animation loops. I just can't unsee it now 🫣

[mrudat]

I think I want an even bigger rocket silo that has enough space for two construction bays and a launch tube and that logically rotates a new rocket into position.

Perhaps have the new rocket slide 'north' into the launch tube and then get raised into the launch position?

On the other hand, perhaps a same-sized rocket silo that can chain launching slimmer cheaper rockets?

The most visually awesome would be to animate the construction of the rockets, but there are no animations tied directly to crafting progress.

[Bruh]

improvement i think about:

1) since networks have an ID, whats the big problem preventing us to rename them to identify them in an easier fashion
2) if we can rename network, what about a way to have networks working by name and not by "blocks". Or ids based on bitmasks like train network ids in LTN. This way, you can use a layout ot have your whole map covered but can still isolate some portion of the network.

[Feynt]

Press L to open Logistics window

You have no idea how much I wanted something like this and never knew it existed already...

That it's getting improved is a great thing. Thank you. Now if you can just hurry and push these QoL improvements... >D

[KeithFromCanada]

It's great to see things progressing so well, especially when you show us the various iterations you used to get to the final product. Some thoughts:

1. The best blueprints include a constant combinator at the input showing what needs to go in each lane and how much per second--multiplied by a thousand because only integers are allowed. While that is awesome for a blueprint, you can only set them down yourself once you've unlocked circuitry. It would be *very* handy if, instead, belts could include an option in their GUI to label each lane separately with icons and/or text that would show up in <ALT> mode and in the info box on the right when you hover over the belt. (I've lost track of how many times I've lost track of what is supposed to be on what belt when designing a complicated assembly line.) Even better would be to include a checkbox to place ghosts of just the icons in the label on the entire transport line. (If one lane's label is empty, the other label is used for both lanes.) That would make setting up massive spaghetti include less regretti, as you can always see exactlywhat every belt will be expected to carry. (Why icons and text? Among other things, it allows you to include expected/necessary throughput. For example, {iron_plate} 7.3 at the input of an assembly line reminds you that you will need to provide 7.3 iron plates per second to that particular lane.)
2. As for the logistics networks GUI, please, please, PLEASE sort the items, with line breaks for categories. The ungodly, unsorted mess on the right is absolutely useless if you want to know how much of something exists.

Cheers!

[macfreek]

I can't think of any good use for full belt readers (I would love to see a native belt throughput sensor though! Any many more sensors for that matter).

But I love those minimaps. The only quality-of-life feature I sorely miss is that only single minimaps have a "Open this location in the map" button. (see screenshot). I would love to see that in those smaller minimaps as well.

factorio-minimap-open-location.png (99.41 KiB) Viewed 2185 times

I often check in the station overview if there are an abnormal amount of trains queued up. That is often an indication of a resource patch running dry. However, there is no "Open this location in the map" button in the station window, so now I first have to go to a train window before I can click the "Open this location in the map" button and examine the situation in detail. I would love to be able to more quickly the examine the situation from any of these overview windows, like the station overview now, but also the logistics network overview presented in the FF#405.

[Theisen]

Unpopular opinion. I hope that the DLC is not just 95% QOL changes. Like don't get me wrong there great to have more QOL and it to be a forethought in the DLC I was just hoping it would account for 5% of the DLC and 95% would be net new content.

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that most all of the QoL content is 2.0, not the Expansion (what you're calling DLC).

I should have stated, that over the past 3 years they have been working on the Expansion that they would have spent more time on net-new content for the expansion instead of QOL for just 2.0. But its hard to tell how Much net new content is in the expansion, it just seems like what has been displayed so far is ALOT less content heavy then 3 years of work on it. Like visuals we have seen are great.

Maybe they are just showing 5% of the expansion content and leaving 95% of the content to be a surprise. Lets hope.

[Tertius]

I can't think of any good use for full belt readers

Consider a long belt for expensive items you only need very few, because these are used only once in a while. For example a satellite. You don't want to fill the belt with huge amounts of these items just wasting their ingredients. With belt readers, you can activate the inserter putting satellites onto the belt only if there are less than 10 satellites on that long belt for example.

[FuryoftheStars]

Maybe they are just showing 5% of the expansion content and leaving 95% of the content to be a surprise. Lets hope.

Your perspective may be skewed, too. Many of the QoL improvements we've been shown they probably spent a fraction of the time on compared to the new stuff. And I'd wager, too, that of the new planets we've been shown so far, they haven't shown us everything.

[Theisen]

spent a fraction of the time on compared to the new stuff.

I would hope, but there is little indication that they are. As Wube writes articles for every change they make. And since we are 32 FFF from the 1 year estimation of the release of the expansion https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-373 and very few have been about new content vs QOL. It doesn't bode well for the expansion being packed.. I'm really hoping they had something that raises the WOW factor more then Quality modules, Blast Furnace, Sulfur Jets, and Junk mining.

[Svip]

If the two planets (and their unique buildings and items), elevated rails, the space platforms and quality modules have not wowed you yet, I doubt the remaining content will.

Moreover, reading a lot of these comments to the FFFs, people aren't particularly good at putting all the changes into the larger context that is 2.0 + Space Age. And it kind of makes sense, since none of them have played either yet. Like I can understand why there is a need for a faster rocket recycling, but I cannot feel it yet.

It's also clear that WUBE seems to be stalling a bit with the FFFs. I notice it ebbs and flows with the content reveals. It's about 2-3 months between new content reveals now, and when they come, it's only two FFFs they take up. And if we are quantifying it like that, there is basically only three pieces of information left to reveal (as far as we know): 2 more planets (with one including the new end condition) and the new enemies (which have been hinted at in several FFFs).

Someone might read that, and think that doesn't sound like a lot of content, but to me, it is a lot of content. Don't let the ratio of between Space Age and 2.0 FFFs fool you, Space Age has been the primary occupation of their time, they are just spending far less time to talk about it. If anyone here is a programmer, they too would recognise that you spend a lot more time talking about small things than large things (commit message, wise).

[FuryoftheStars]

spent a fraction of the time on compared to the new stuff.

I would hope, but there is little indication that they are. As Wube writes articles for every change they make. And since we are 32 FFF from the 1 year estimation of the release of the expansion https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-373 and very few have been about new content vs QOL. It doesn't bode well for the expansion being packed.. I'm really hoping they had something that raises the WOW factor more then Quality modules, Blast Furnace, Sulfur Jets, and Junk mining.

Yeah, this is what I mean... you can't just count X FFFs about QoL and Y about new content. It doesn't work that way.

Edit: Just to throw this out there, too, I'm in the process of going through the FFFs to compile all of the changes. It's slow going though due to RL. I'll post it as a separate thread, though.

[factoriogame1121]

Do we have timers in the logic system?
In case you need to dispense some material in portions.
I also remember a long time ago I tried to implement a portioned release of energy from batteries via an on/off toggle switch. Without a timer it didn't work out that way.

[factoriogame1121]

I remembered the game Simcity. Could the function of highlighting railway tracks depending on their congestion be useful? For example, to see where there are too many delays and traffic jams and, accordingly, build additional routes.

For example, you can count the number of idle trains vying for one section (limited by traffic lights) and if there are more than 10 in the queue, then highlight this section in red.

[TheRaph]

Perhaps you could still add the option that if one clicks on a specific item (or member), the minimap will add icons of where that item is stored/located? So you can re-add the functionality of showing where things are, but it is less obtrusive as you do not need all the different minimaps, and you can toggle things individually.

Vote for this!

[Qon]

Do we have timers in the logic system?
In case you need to dispense some material in portions.
I also remember a long time ago I tried to implement a portioned release of energy from batteries via an on/off toggle switch. Without a timer it didn't work out that way.

Just make one, wiki has tutorial on combinators. It's like one of the simplest things you can make.

[Mendel]

Do we have timers in the logic system?
In case you need to dispense some material in portions.
I also remember a long time ago I tried to implement a portioned release of energy from batteries via an on/off toggle switch. Without a timer it didn't work out that way.

Can't you just use an item moving on a looping belt, read belt contents on some part of the belt and thats your timer?

Or you could have a system where you have chests and belts. You have a fish in chest A and inserter connected to logic network will insert fish from chest to a long winding belt when condition a is met (such as battery level percentage). Then at the end of that belt an inserter will eventually put the fish to chest B. You read chest B contents and do something when there is fish there (toggle power switch?) Then another logic inserter can put the fish on another belt towards chest A. (when power at another percentage) Could be used for some kind of hysteresis for example.
Basically you get longer "timer" with longer belt.
I think it is cuter than a simple number timer

[escfoe2]

I believe, as others have stated, you should absolutely include an ability to see where they're made. Just not all at once. We don't need that much exposure. Hovering over an item in the table and it highlighting where it's made and/or where its members are (and vise versa with members) would be a reasonable expectation of the UI and wouldn't clutter it. Please consider adding it back.

[gobsan]

The main question after FF405 - why are there 84k rockets in the logistic network? Could we be getting a new turret or are these used for spiders?