4:30 in a game and evo factor 0.13? + linearity

[albatrosv13]

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[Kupferdrache]

As far as I know evolution is can only growing, but the futher you are the slower the groth becomes. time is the slowest factor of groth, polluion the middle one but taking biter nests out gives the real kick in evolution.

as far as your concern about linartiy, you are right as 0.9.x vanilla. But comared to minecraft there are other cycles in factorio and with mods like dytech adding more ores it get better, but it seems unlikely to get mod addons like greg tech or extra bees to factorio. but you are invited help us that way.

[Okami]

How can i view my actual evo factor ?

About linearity, thats maybe a bit true. You dont have much choice how to start. And there are very few different ways for doing things, but the design of the factory comes out complete different every time. So its not this big deal so far fo me.

In my current game i disabled evolution for some hours now. I like to complete rebuild my base from time to time (new techs avaiable etc.), but nothing stops the evolution and breeding of biters.
I cant kill them fast enough to expand my facilities, or just expore the map. You have this very big nice map, but in my game (30+hrs) there is a huge biter base everywhere. and i cant do anything about them spreading. maybe i just need to get used to this gameplay style....dont know. for me the slow approach just doesnt work. iam behind in tech, in production and weaponry but the biters keep growing and spreading.

Instead now im going on massiv-large scale. 14 Iron smelters with double speed modules, around 10 harvesters per ressource, at least 4-8 facilities for every kind of stuff, autoproducing laser turrets etc. I dont like the fact that i have a pollution footbring the size of a continent ^^ but works better progression wise. i can keep up in tech and weaponry with the growing numbers.


So to topic evolution, i would like to see an option to disable evo over time, and some possibilities to de-evolute the enemies. or some more automated battlesystems. robot-battlemechs who go on they own for rampage etc.

[albatrosv13]

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[Zourin]

Another thing that bothers me is that the game is pretty much linear. Yes, automation is fun, but every time a player starts from a scratch, he/she has to do all the same things from the start. Mine iron, copper, (coal), make automation for red vials, make automation for bullets(that is also optional), make automation for green vials, make automation for blue vials and so on and forth. All the assembly line optionality is just placement. No resource variation, for example.
All that together and I already know what will happen in a whole game after i explore the map for about 5-10 minutes.

It's not as linear as you think, you're just stuck doing the same thing over and over. It happens. Do you minimize your burner tech level and try to squeeze into electricity with the bare minimum, or do you build up your burner-miners for faster material production so that the transition to an electric miner field can happen much faster with less waiting on Iron?

Environment can have a huge effect on gameplay as well. Start in a desert, and cars become incredibly useful. Start in a forest and it's a dumb choice. Do you go for trains early? Bots? Lasers? Solar? Electric Furnaces? Factory Mods? Do you build big to last (eg, a fully loaded 2-pump steam plant in the first hour or so), or do you build the bare minimum to handle immediate needs with plans to break it down later? Do you try to take advantage of running belts under factories to save space?

Change up your priorities a bit and see how it goes.

[calcifer]

So to topic evolution, i would like to see an option to disable evo over time, and some possibilities to de-evolute the enemies. or some more automated battlesystems. robot-battlemechs who go on they own for rampage etc.

This. I'm a little over 24 hours into my current sandbox game and all the biter bases surrounding me are so incredibly powerful I have no way of ever defeating them. When a single big biter (the blue ones, with extremely high HP) can kill a fully armored player wielding a level 4 shotgun how can I go about collecting alien artifacts?

Anyway, enemies get way too powerful way too easily and we don't really have offensive weapons to kill them (laser modules for the powered armor doesn't count as that requires a portable fusion reactor which in turn requires 30 alien artifacts, which defeats the purpose). Sure, I can defend my base with three layers of walls, but I can't go after them into their bases.

So please, either nerf the biters (both evolution rate and HP) quite a bit or at least give as offensive powers. Seek & destroy suicide bots? Driveable tanks? Aircraft? Guided missiles? Sky is the limit!

[ssilk]

When a single big biter (the blue ones, with extremely high HP) can kill a fully armored player wielding a level 4 shotgun how can I go about collecting alien artifacts?

More phantasy is needed then. Read the help-FAQ (https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =18&t=3272) about fighting.

[dj_lefull]

The Big ones do have high HP however if you are using the Combat shotgun and Piercing ammo then your Research must be horrible, the bases i encounter are HUGE yet with my Shotgun, Power Armor MK2 and alot of Piercing rounds i can wipe them out, Bases take two hits, Big biters take about 3 when they take all the spread and everything else is normally instantly dead, all about research man

[calcifer]

That's the problem right there. You can't get Power Armor MK2 without alien artifacts, but you can't get alien artifacts without the armor in late game. Basically, if you wait too long to attack biter nests, they become highly evolved (due to time + pollution) with even the smallest bases having 3-5 big biters. At that point, there is nothing you can do (level 4 shotgun or piercing rounds don't mean much against 5 blue biters) and it's basically game over. Right?

EDIT: My current evolution factor is 0.92

[Okami]

True, you can fight the growing numbers if you are fully equipped, no question. But what i wanted to point out, this forces you to a very strict gameplay. Research and Production en mass to keep on level with the enemies.
At the moment there is not much you can do if you like to take things slow. build only the essentials etc. I enjoy to fiddle around with factory layouts, rebuilding, make things pretty, or just drive around in the car and explore the map. But this just costs to much time so the enemy will overrun you. The only solution is to go "extrem" with everything. Moar Lazzors, moar armor etc. This hurts the pure builder aspect of the game a little bit.

Thats why i would see some options to stop the growing or fight the nests automated.

Checked my evo factor. Iam at 0.96 now after 40hrs, with pollution/damage/time factors set to 0 for 15hrs now.

[Zourin]

The answer you're looking for is: Distractor Bots

Laser based (only thing that works on Big Blues), and you can throw out an unlimited number of them at one time, and don't require purple packs. It's a saving grace of this game's hobbled combat system where you simply can't go Iron Man on the alien population when faced with multiple big biters. Lay down piles of distractors and you should be able to gather enough biter balls to build the power armor if you pick off the weak nests.

Slow Capsules are also integral at this point if you're in an area that's even remotely forested, as trees are the number one killer of automobiles in this game, not biters. This offers you a brief kiting advantage or get out of town card to retreat to your tower line.

[Teurlinx]

The thing I've noticed with the bases is that they appear to be a lot easier when not in your heavily polluted zones.

This sets up a reinforcing loop as players who focus on their base and not clear the biters will face harder alien bases spawning biters a lot more aggressively. And the combat oriented players will easily clear the biter bases from the start and keep them out of their pollution radius, therefore always encountering much easier foes.

Perhaps the game should steer more towards giving the combat oriented players a harder time at combat, and limiting the evilness capacity of the bases near to the starting area. Possibly by setting a cap on the 'pollution level' affecting the spawners depending on how far from the starting area they are. The ones fairly close to the starting area should never go batshit insane spawning biters faster than 80 laser turrets can shoot down. Leave those bases for the combat oriented players instead who'd actually appreciate the challenge.