Feels like certain changes were made to the game 'just because'

[Koub]

I think if one has to ask themself "How can I unlock [XXXXX] ?", and has to find the right action to get the trigger research, then the trigger tech mechanism has been used in a wrong way.

The problem is that not everyone has the same knowledge of the game, and the complete beginner may benefit from more guidance, while the experienced players know their stuff, especially there should be something there, but can't be found.

Let me give an example of how trigger tech could be tuned :
1) Everything relative to Fulgora is unlocked as soon as Fulgora is unlocked
2) The tech for scrap is triggered when a chunk with scrap is generated
3) The tech for scrap is triggered when the fog of war reveals scrap
4) The tech for scrap is triggered when scrap is actually mined

These 4 are valid uses of the triggered tech concept, but will feel very different from the player's perspective, especially depending on if the player knows what is their objective.

[MeduSalem]

I think if one has to ask themself "How can I unlock [XXXXX] ?", and has to find the right action to get the trigger research, then the trigger tech mechanism has been used in a wrong way.

With that reasoning most of the trigger techs were used in the wrong way from my perspective because even though I knew they would be part of the 2.0 update I still had to look up the "right action" for most of them to unlock. At least I had a couple moments that were like "well and now what am I supposed to do to get the next thing?" and then had to go into the research screen to look what you actually need to do/wait for. Didn't really feel "natural" as "part of the flow" as it was intended to. xD


While I think it was an interesting idea and even though initially I wasn't against it, but in the aftermath and with some days off from the game allowing me to see things more objectively I think trigger techs are at least in the top 10 of my personal "annoying parts" about 2.0/Space Age. Definitely not at the top of the list, but part of it for sure.

[KuuLightwing]

Yea, I also agree that often times trigger tech introduced more friction than benefit for me, like having to extract oil before building refineries and so on.

Especially when you need to do a specific thing on a different planet like with nuclear reactor research. If you want steam turbines, you need to mine uranium (or unlock heating tower), but if you are on Vulcanus where said steam turbine would be pretty handy, you obviously can't quite do that. With old style research, the solution is to just research the relevant tech, but with triggers you are going to be locked out of it until you do that rather specific thing.

Even weirder with how quantum processor is locked behind capturing spawners for some reason.

[Panzerknacker]

Yeah it's like somebody went 'ok let's make everything resource-related a trigger tech because it's the same category' without really thinking about the consequences.

To my taste the game simply isnt done yet so I reverted to playing 1.1.110. As for my contribution, I made a few suggestion threads lately to help improve the situation, now it's up to the devs. Will check back in a few months.

[MisterDoctor]

I think if one has to ask themself "How can I unlock [XXXXX] ?", and has to find the right action to get the trigger research, then the trigger tech mechanism has been used in a wrong way.

for me they almost work like quest objectives? I'm not sure if that's the right way or the wrong way. I have to lookup "what is the weird tech to get and how do I get it" and that becomes my objective. and thinking about it, for Factorio, those objectives are WAY too narrow; that might be why they feel weird. in most cases you are constrained all the way down to doing exactly one specific thing. there is no "free play" there is only "aim for that next tech and its very specific unlocking rule".

when I finally get the science pack unlocked it finally feels like I can actually start to play the planet/game. I'm not sure if this is or isn't how it is intended. I'm also not sure what a good alternative would be. maybe two science packs per planet? the intro one and the advanced one? TBH it would be great if my first objective on a planet was to produce and consume some relatively easy science rather than do these weird goals.

I don't think this is a huge issue; just that if I think about it it definitely feels like it could be improved a lot.

(thinking about it, these issues are I think lessened on Gleba since there is such an enormous amount of work to do between arriving and producing science. On Vulcanus and especially Fulgora, where there is very little work to do, it sticks out a lot more.)

(I guess I was talking mostly about the planet ones, but the Nauvis ones are weird also. I'm pretty sure I would rather just research them. but again not a huge issue.)

[BlueTemplar]

A reminder that these are for the first time players first and foremost — I guess Wube noticed that too few people were playing the demo / tutorial scenarios first, and instead jumping straight into freeplay ?

[KuuLightwing]

A reminder that these are for the first time players first and foremost — I guess Wube noticed that too few people were playing the demo / tutorial scenarios first, and instead jumping straight into freeplay ?

I have my doubts that they are all that beneficial for new players either. And not convinced that they weren't possible to implement differently so that they don't disrupt the game flow for more experienced players.