Factorio Forums

Is there some guide to Bob's pipes? I want to know how to use them better.

crysanja wrote:maybe you should remove the electrolysis way to make H2.

if you look at wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

its not realy done this way today.

Well, I do have the petroleum gas cracking to hydrogen recipe for this reason, but if I removed electrolysis, then how would you get oxygen, or chlorine? I suppose if you want to, you can consider hydrogen as a byproduct to the oxygen, or chlorine production method.

cpy wrote:Is there some guide to Bob's pipes? I want to know how to use them better.

Look at the first post, about half way down. I copied the information there at someone elses request.

Due to the results of the poll though, I'm going to remove pipes from MCI, and move them to the logistics mod instead.

I think another way to solve water electrolysis problem is to change reactions coefficients. To replace "1 water -> 1 hydrogen + 0.5 oxygen" by "1 water -> 0.05 hydrogen + 0.025 oxygen". The effective cost of the reaction goes 20 times higher, without the need of rebalancing of the electrolyser stats or petroleum cracking part.

I have read carefully your post about energy cost, bobingabout, and for now I don't see the problem with that solution. Please excuse me if I miss some important points. I would like to find a perfect solution, so let it will not irritate any of you if I will miss some arguments for the first time, requiring to repeat some of the said.

Edit: ah, "0.05 water -> 0.05 hydrogen + 0.025 oxygen", same here.

your sugestion is effectively the same as the other method of increasing the time to complete a cycle, the only difference is you get a constant trickle instead of far appart bursts. Besides, you'd still have the same issue with salt water electrolysis, because you can't use 0.1 salt, or get out 0.1 sodium hydroxide. Also, I think the minimum quantity multiplier for fluids in a recipe is 0.1, so it would need to be 0.2 water for 0.2 hydrogen and 0.1 oxygen.

To further this argument... One of the reasons why I don't want to make it obsenely expensive like this is because these gasses are used elsewhere, and making hydrogen, oxygen, and chlorine, and by effect, Sodium Hydroxide obsenely expensive, you make Aluminium, Titanium, Tungsten, the "high tech" lead recipe, the "Advanced copper processing" recipe (that's supposed to be cheaper than just smelting copper ore) and anything else that uses any of these gasses Obsenely expensive too. The fuel blocks from hydrogen is supposed to be a dumpster for disposing of excess hydrogen as a control method, like the oil recipes, rather than being a main stream source of fuel.

To go even further... Electrolysis is actually a relatively cheap method of producing gasses, I'm told that you can use a single 9V battery (if controlled correctly) to Electrolyse pure distilled water to produce enough fuel to run a full powered lawn mower flat out, as it is being electrolysed. You're effectively amplifying the power of the 9V battery using water via electrolysis.

I honestly would be perfectly okay with pushing the hydrogen cost of solid fuel way up past the reasonable point to obviate overunity using highly efficient steam engines/boilers, and maxed out productivity modules. If it's just a resource sink to prevent other electrolysis products being locked out then that's A-OK by me. Hydrogen is a lot less dense than petrogas or light oil anyhow.

Well, I can do that. I'm not going to go stupid crazy though and make it 50 to 100 times more expensive. Currently it costs 2. Now, I don't want it crazy expensive, so how about 25? You'd still have a net gain from the electrolysis, meaning it's actually worth it, but you probably won't be able to run your entire factory off it. and I'd also increase the Hydrogen gained from Cracking petroleum Gas to about 50... or 25 from only 1 Petroleum gas instead of from 2.

Making the cracking recipe yield an equivalent amount of hydrogen to produce the same amount of solid fuel makes sense to me, yeah.

Cracking Light oil to Petroleum Gas costs 3 and gives 2, so you have an efficiency of 66% there, then the fuel blocks cost 1 light oil, or 2 gas, which is only 33% efficient. As the formula stands now, getting 5 hydrogen from 2 gas gives you a 250% efficiency with the current Hydrogen cost.

Then again, you get the same sort of issue with heavy oil, it costs 2 heavy oil, or 1 light oil, so efficiency by converting to light oil before making fuel cubes has an efficiency above 100%.

So I'm not sure if I should make the cracking cost 2 to give the amount required to make a hydrogen fuel block, making it 100% efficient (Or a bit less so there's some loss), or if I should take the heavy-light approach and let it have a >100% efficiency. My aim as it is now at least gives a <100% efficiency converting from light oil to Hydrogen, even if there's a massive step down, then step up In efficiency when you convert through gas.

One more question, is it possible to disable coal to heavy oil cracking? Because it seems a bit cheap to create plastics from wood, compared to biomaterial process that treefarm have.

You want me to add a config disable option for a single recipe? This is probably one of those cases of just "if you don't like it, don't use it". Because it is part of an existing research, and not part of its own research (like most of the other things I made disableable), it would mean that once you research it(or where you would have unlocked it if you research with it disabled), it can never be turned on unless you cheat, it would also mean going through and changing all the migration scripts to check if it exists before attempting to turn it on, otherwise the whole script wouldn't work.

How about I look at the recipe and try and ballance it out a bit better? being able to turn coal into oil/gas is actually a realistic process.

I bet energy use is as low as here in real life too.
I bet they use tree farms to make coal and then turn it into oil.

well, the wood to coal thing isn't anything to do with me, its a tree farm thing. but I did say I'll look into the oil from coal thing.

I realy like your mods bob but I have one problem: Can you use better names for your items because it's quiet hard to cheat some items for testing in mp.

Problem with your mod is, that we need tree farm for circuits and you don't want to do your own treefarm, so we're in some sort of wood to oil limbo
Coal to oil is fine because it is limited but treefarm removes this limit.

SuperSandro2000 wrote:I realy like your mods bob but I have one problem: Can you use better names for your items because it's quiet hard to cheat some items for testing in mp.

Simple answer: Don't cheat
No, well... Most of my names in code are the same or similar to actually ingame. "solder", "sodium-hydroxide" etc, which becomes confusing when you find one that isn't the same. I suppose I could get a list of what all the names are, I have to look them up myself quite often ¦3

cpy wrote:Problem with your mod is, that we need tree farm for circuits and you don't want to do your own treefarm, so we're in some sort of wood to oil limbo
Coal to oil is fine because it is limited but treefarm removes this limit.

Don't forget that oil is limitless anyway, it slows down, but it mines indefinitely at a slow pace when "depleated".

Anyway, I'm thinking about a different solution... Synthetic wood.

Now, I have 2 options for this... An oil to wood recipe, which isn't all that realistic, because you can't make wood, an organic material, out of oil. But this method makes it easier elsewhere, because you can just use this synthetic wood like you would any other peice of wood.

the second option is to add an oil to Synthetic wood recipe, this is realistic, because you can make "Plastic wood" from plastic fibres made from oil. Then I would need to add recipes to use this synthetic wood. Namely in the Electronic base boards, so basically, you'd be making them out of oil instead of wood, removing the need for masses of wood, removing the need for treefarm.

Neat, i can't wait for warfare. I will play it and say what i think, as usual

Where DyTech Warefare adds both Weapons and harder enemies, I think what I want to do is make 2 seperate mods, Warefare that adds better weapons, and Enemies that adds the enemies.

For Enemies, I'm probably going to do something more along the lines of what base game did for spitters, where the default nests can't produce anything more than they do now, with a new nest that produces the spitters, and add more higher level nests that will produce the harder enemies. What exactly will I add, and what will produce what, I don't know, but because of the new method the devs have been using where the enemies are all drawn once, and are resized and coloured with masks when rendered in game, I probably won't add any graphics at all. MAYBE icons, but that's it.

v0.7.5
* Solder now requires solder plate, made in a mixing furnace
* F-Mod overides for duplicate items Solder plate and Sodium Hydroxide added.
* Liquid Fuel Canister and Ferric Chloride Canister now only carry 5 fluid instead of 25.
* Adjusted numbers of Petroleum Gas Cracking to Hydrogen recipe
* Adjusted costs of Fuel blocks from Hydrogen
* Added Multi-purpose furnace MK2
* Added Synthetic wood for Electronic boards

Also I noticed that I forgot to update the link on the first post for 0.7.4, so I guess those who didn't check the archives will have 2 versions of updates now.

Multipurpose furnace is adjusted to be speed 3 with max 5 modules (was 6 modules and speed 3.5 in 0.7.4, or speed 4 in 0.7.3)
Multipurpose furnace is speed 4 with 6 modules, and allows up to 8 ingredients.

Will we get laser sniper turrets? Or sniper turrets? Heavy cannon turrets?

cpy wrote:Will we get laser sniper turrets? Or sniper turrets? Heavy cannon turrets?

I release an update, and the only comment is about a different mod x3

Laser sniper turret not planned, but upgraded laser turrets are.
Sniper turret is planned.
Heavy cannon, how would you make this work? Just like the regular gun, but slower and hard hitting?

I'm not keen on the tank shell as a turret for the same reason why I'm not keen on a shotgun turret, they can't shoot over walls.