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I played around a bit with new terrain generation and I'm looking for opinions.

It seems for me that base game generation seems to have much more options now and it can get pretty close to RSO when you go into low frequency values.

Do we need RSO still on 0.17?

I'd find out what RSO does that vanilla still doesn't do, then determine if the missing features of RSO are worth keeping the mod around.

My reason for using RSO was that it better incorporated other mod ores such as Angel's infinite ores into the center of ore clusters instead of being a full patch itself. RSO also permitted rather large regions which were likely well outside the norms of vanilla, which may still be the case in 0.17.

A nice list to compare would really help with forming an opinion.

Yeah, vanilla is pretty decent now. Though I could see people liking still rarer resources. Manipulating the distant exponent is also nice. So is the different multipliers for global and starting resources.

What could work is turning RSO into a simpler, more vanilla-like mod. Scrap the custom resource generation algorithm and offer more options, values granularity for the vanilla one

Serenity wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:55 pm

Yeah, vanilla is pretty decent now. Though I could see people liking still rarer resources. Manipulating the distant exponent is also nice. So is the different multipliers for global and starting resources.

What could work is turning RSO into a simpler, more vanilla-like mod. Scrap the custom resource generation algorithm and offer more options, values granularity for the vanilla one

I think that one of devs mentioned something about new noise variation that could be used - it's still very far from what RSO does atm.
I'm waiting for big mods to upgrade so that I can see how vanilla behaves with a lot of ores. I think it might get a bit worse since one thing you can't do with base generation is to make only one ore roll per some area.
It seems that bob posted update to his mods so I'll be taking a look today or tomorrow.

orzelek wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:19 pm

It seems that bob posted update to his mods so I'll be taking a look today or tomorrow.

Reducing the odds of tin appearing turned an otherwise 300k-600k area into a mountain of 24M ore. Clearly something is screwed up there. Ore rarity seems to have the opposite effect, much unlike RSO.

Default generation has gotten better. but still doesn't feel quite the same as RSO. Id like to see some form of working RSO for .17 as soon as possible!

Default generation is better, but there are features I miss from RSO! The biggest I miss is that in combination with Angel's Infinite Ores, the infinite ores would spawn in the middle of a patch but not be the entirety of that ore patch. That made the world feel organic, gave me a boost when I made a new outpost but kept that outpost producing a little even after "depletion."

Carb wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:44 am

Default generation is better, but there are features I miss from RSO! The biggest I miss is that in combination with Angel's Infinite Ores, the infinite ores would spawn in the middle of a patch but not be the entirety of that ore patch. That made the world feel organic, gave me a boost when I made a new outpost but kept that outpost producing a little even after "depletion."

This is the best argument for why we still need RSO.

I would really like a way to reduce the amount of patches of ore. Even with the lowest setting in 0.17 they are still quite frequent.
In combination with patches getting larger when you go farther out.

For me that seems to be all that is missing.

To me the biggest advantage of using RSO are shapes of ore patches. Usually on vanilla we get really weird shapes especially if you make the patches quite big. Also as mentioned before, the angel's infinite ore's mod works really nice with RSO so personally i would love if you made it compatible with 0.17.

Example of vanilla ore shapes (i turned the size and frequency all the way up). Notice the weird holes and inconsistency in shapes especially bottom right corner iron and the copper above it, as well as patches seem to like to be "connected" like the big iron ore in the center which with proper settings can be avoided in RSO.

orzelek wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:26 pm

Do we need RSO still on 0.17?

Of course we need RSO !

I can understand that you might want to hang your boots up and retire RSO, but I for one would miss it. The placement and granularity has always been far better with RSO than vanilla, and I don't think vanilla handles infinite ores well either.

Yes, RSO still has its place in Factorio 0.17 - the sooner the better ^^

Rue99 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:05 pm

... The placement and granularity has always been far better with RSO than vanilla...

Because the map is full of patches that just aren't important. And they'll tear your OCD apart...
But if you stick with RSO, you're gonna accomplish great things, and RSO's gonna be part of that!
And together we're gonna run around, with RSO we're gonna... do all kinds of wonderful things in Factorio!
Just you and me, RSO. The vanilla patches are our enemy... you're the only decently spaced patches we've got!
It's just me and RSO. Me and RSO and our adventures with Factorio... ME AND RSO FOREVER A HUNDRED YEARS me and RSO... some...things.... Me and RSO runnin' around the map and... RSO time... all day long forever.. all a hundred days me and RSO forever a hundred times... OVER and over me and RSO adventures dot com... W W W dot me and RSO dot com w..w..w... me and RSO adventures.. ah- hundred years.... every minute me and RSO dot com.... w w w a hundred times... me and RSO dot com.......

Go to your home dimension, LordWampus, you're drunk !

You will find what you are looking for on mod portal.
(It might not fully work.. you've been warned)

I agree, RSO should continue. I think vanilla generation is certainly better than it used to be, and is fine for the 90%+ of players who launch a rocket and move on to the next game in their Steam queue.

Those of us who like to build megabases are better off with RSO. It is easier to create larger, richer patches that last longer and can fill up large trains more quickly. Frequency tends to be better-controlled and more consistent. RSO generation rarely produces non-viable (to a megabase) ore patches, while vanilla spits out tons of overlapping or tiny patches even when lowering frequency.

In short, RSO adds a lot more control over the ore generation process which makes building a megabase far less frustrating. Please keep it going!

Tongs wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:40 pm

I agree, RSO should continue. I think vanilla generation is certainly better than it used to be, and is fine for the 90%+ of players who launch a rocket and move on to the next game in their Steam queue.

Huh. I am kinda surprised that even 14% of people on steam manage to finish the game. Admittedly only 50% even get so far as to trigger an attack, 56% reach oil, and 54% mass produce iron. So roughly 28% of people who gave it a try finish the game. Actually pretty impressive.

RSO has a number of features that the vanilla generator can't emulate YET. Aside from the fancy shapes, which are not that important (I seem to recall a donut setting) the railworld support looks like it has largely been handled. The infinity ore integration is still irreplacable though.

Continue until such a time as people don't need it, because vanilla does it at least as well as RSO.

Tongs wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:40 pm

vanilla spits out tons of overlapping or tiny patches even when lowering frequency

0.17 pic or it didn't happen !

OT
I'm one of those without achievement on steam on Factorio. I play standalone only