Demolishers too easy to kill through some means.
Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2024 9:27 pm
EDIT:
The bug I believe to be in play is that piercing projectiles and explosions appear to be registering multiple hits on a single demolisher by hitting multiple segments.
Nilaus aptly demonstrates the problem here:
https://youtu.be/QUfEEuM71C0?si=992UVv_mtesLIfQT&t=820
I also believe that this does not fit the design vision you laid out in FFF #429.
Based on the comments made in that article, I understand that the demolisher is intended to be a fight you undertake after preparing through stocking up on various consumables and laying a trap with various turrets and other deployables, preferably, lasting some time without being being a boring slugfest.
Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to get the desired "bossfight" feeling within Factorio's current damage/health model, the interaction with stacking research, AoE/Piercing weapons, base resistances and regeneration means it's hard to achieve the desired result without it either being too hard or too easy, depending on the means employed and how far along you are in research/ammo quality and what resistance, health and regen values you assign to the demolisher.
The best suggestion I can think of is a combination of three things:
1. Reduce damage instances based on how much they overflow a fraction of max health.
As an example, if a damage instance were 50% of max health, the fraction 10% and the reduction 75%, a 50% max hp damage instance would resolve as 10% + (40% * 0.25) = 20%
2. Introduce a reactive resistance to encourage damage type diversity, this would involve demolishers gaining resistances as they take damage from a damage type, this reactive resistance would fade over time, like some of the slow stickers can do.
As an example, if you were to shoot a demolisher with a railgun, the demolisher would progressively gain kinetic damage resistance with each damage instance it suffers from the railgun, based on what fraction of max hp that instance did, that reactive resistance would then fade out over time.
3. Reduce a projectile's damage by a fraction of how much damage it has done to entities it has pierced through, modulated by the projectile's max piercing value, or prevent projectiles from interacting with the same parent entity multiple times outright.
1. Would prevent demolishers from getting one-shot by a single damage instance.
2. Would prevent demolishers from getting cheesed by a single damage types and/or nukes.
3. Would prevent piercing shots from doing massive amounts of damage with weapons that pierce multiple segments.
this should keep demolishers killable through planned means while reducing the impact of anti-climactic options, like, say, nukes, railguns or massed uranium mg turrets. You could even relax some of the resistances the Demolisher currently has.
The bug I believe to be in play is that piercing projectiles and explosions appear to be registering multiple hits on a single demolisher by hitting multiple segments.
Nilaus aptly demonstrates the problem here:
https://youtu.be/QUfEEuM71C0?si=992UVv_mtesLIfQT&t=820
I also believe that this does not fit the design vision you laid out in FFF #429.
Based on the comments made in that article, I understand that the demolisher is intended to be a fight you undertake after preparing through stocking up on various consumables and laying a trap with various turrets and other deployables, preferably, lasting some time without being being a boring slugfest.
Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to get the desired "bossfight" feeling within Factorio's current damage/health model, the interaction with stacking research, AoE/Piercing weapons, base resistances and regeneration means it's hard to achieve the desired result without it either being too hard or too easy, depending on the means employed and how far along you are in research/ammo quality and what resistance, health and regen values you assign to the demolisher.
The best suggestion I can think of is a combination of three things:
1. Reduce damage instances based on how much they overflow a fraction of max health.
As an example, if a damage instance were 50% of max health, the fraction 10% and the reduction 75%, a 50% max hp damage instance would resolve as 10% + (40% * 0.25) = 20%
2. Introduce a reactive resistance to encourage damage type diversity, this would involve demolishers gaining resistances as they take damage from a damage type, this reactive resistance would fade over time, like some of the slow stickers can do.
As an example, if you were to shoot a demolisher with a railgun, the demolisher would progressively gain kinetic damage resistance with each damage instance it suffers from the railgun, based on what fraction of max hp that instance did, that reactive resistance would then fade out over time.
3. Reduce a projectile's damage by a fraction of how much damage it has done to entities it has pierced through, modulated by the projectile's max piercing value, or prevent projectiles from interacting with the same parent entity multiple times outright.
1. Would prevent demolishers from getting one-shot by a single damage instance.
2. Would prevent demolishers from getting cheesed by a single damage types and/or nukes.
3. Would prevent piercing shots from doing massive amounts of damage with weapons that pierce multiple segments.
this should keep demolishers killable through planned means while reducing the impact of anti-climactic options, like, say, nukes, railguns or massed uranium mg turrets. You could even relax some of the resistances the Demolisher currently has.