Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 3:51 pm
by Hares
This chest contains no legendary processors.
04-30-2025, 18-50-52.png (138.58 KiB) Viewed 689 times
Now live with that.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:39 pm
by mmmPI
But why would you make a legendary steel chest in Fulgora ? x)
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:54 pm
by Hares
mmmPI wrote: Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:39 pm
But why would you make a legendary steel chest in Fulgora ? x)
Fulgora was my first planet. I have a massive quality grinder there. And I dumped ~500 Q3 recylcers into recycler grinder and it spit more ingredients then the system could handle with normal chests
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2025 8:21 pm
by Tertius
The quality mark for the chest is slightly bigger. It's not very prominent, but it's not indistinguishable either.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 10:20 am
by NOiZE
it is a good point though, perhaps the icon on items should be on the right bottom side, to fix this.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 10:33 am
by mmmPI
Hares wrote: Wed Apr 30, 2025 6:54 pm
Fulgora was my first planet. I have a massive quality grinder there. And I dumped ~500 Q3 recylcers into recycler grinder and it spit more ingredients then the system could handle with normal chests
Make sense. I had somehow missed the update about quality chest having more slot i think.
I run some test and saw as Tertius mentionned that it was slightly bigger icon on the bottom left, it's more visible when you have the legendary stuff not in the bottom left slot :
legendary.png (23.86 KiB) Viewed 587 times
The difference is a few pixel, but you can see when hovering that the chest is legendary, and so know the bottom left icon is for the chest's quality.
It's a bit odd but i found it more visible to check the aligment on the bottom now that i have starred at it.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 10:50 am
by Hares
mmmPI wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 10:33 am
The difference is a few pixel, but you can see when hovering that the chest is legendary, and so know the bottom right icon is for the chest's quality.
It's a bit odd but i found it more visible to check the aligment on the bottom now that i have starred at it.
I know this was a legendary chest. I just checked 4 times if it contains legendary processors. I was disappointed all 4 times.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 11:11 am
by mmmPI
Hares wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 10:50 am
I know this was a legendary chest. I just checked 4 times if it contains legendary processors. I was disappointed all 4 times.
Sorry for the nitpick but from the picture you posted the chest can only be filled manually as the inserters are sideways so unless you were to manually refill it with legendary processors, it couldn't possibly have some, you could have avoided this disappointment !
I would argue that for logistic chest, there is the "L" menu that allow to search, making them more 'practical' than legendary steel chest.
You said "now live with that" , i'm trying my best x)
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Hares wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 10:50 am
I know this was a legendary chest. I just checked 4 times if it contains legendary processors. I was disappointed all 4 times.
Sorry for the nitpick but from the picture you posted the chest can only be filled manually as the inserters are sideways so unless you were to manually refill it with legendary processors, it couldn't possibly have some, you could have avoided this disappointment !
I rotated them to make a screenshot.
Otherwise it looks like:
Welcome to Fulgora
05-01-2025, 14-13-39.png (815.3 KiB) Viewed 554 times
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 11:18 am
by mmmPI
Hares wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 11:13 am
I rotated them to make a screenshot.
Otherwise it looks like:
That make more sense why the rotation.
Wouldn't it be helpful to replace such steel chest by a passive storage to allow for searching items via the logistic menu ?
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 11:39 am
by Hares
mmmPI wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 11:18 am
Wouldn't it be helpful to replace such steel chest by a passive storage to allow for searching items via the logistic menu ?
Nope, I explicitly don't want them to be in the logi-net. These belong to isolated subsystem of quality upcycler. Otherwise, ratios would break. Legendary processors, as well as legendary gears & legendary concrete, are materials for legendary recycler made at assembler to the right. It has not recipe currently because it uses Smarts™ to set recipe (either Q4 or Q5)
---
@mods, why moved this to the Gameplay help? I was not asking for help, I was just dumping my thoughts.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 11:50 am
by mmmPI
Hares wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 11:39 am
Nope, I explicitly don't want them to be in the logi-net. These belong to isolated subsystem of quality upcycler. Otherwise, ratios would break. Legendary processors, as well as legendary gears & legendary concrete, are materials for legendary recycler made at assembler to the right. It has not recipe currently because it uses Smarts™ to set recipe (either Q4 or Q5)
---
@mods, why moved this to the Gameplay help? I was not asking for help, I was just dumping my thoughts.
that's why i tried to "help"
But if you don't mind me dumping my thought, such setup cannot be fully trusted because it shares the same buffer for the different product coming from the recycler so it can happen that one blocks the other and screw the ratio. Plus of course manual picking up of processor could break it !
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 12:03 pm
by Hares
mmmPI wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 11:50 am
But if you don't mind me dumping my thought, such setup cannot be fully trusted because it shares the same buffer for the different product coming from the recycler so it can happen that one blocks the other and screw the ratio. Plus of course manual picking up of processor could break it !
This is isolated setup.
Images gallery with comments
Partially-upgraded setup which caused this discussion
05-01-2025, 14-53-27.png (1.19 MiB) Viewed 501 times
Older version looks like this (will break on Q4+ items):
Older setup
05-01-2025, 14-53-52.png (354.41 KiB) Viewed 501 times
More modern version looks like this:
Modern setup, wtih Alt-mode
05-01-2025, 14-54-19.png (1.5 MiB) Viewed 501 times
Modern setup, without Alt-mode
05-01-2025, 14-54-41.png (1.51 MiB) Viewed 501 times
As you can see, the only source of input is requester chest for Q1 materials.
Then materials are used in Q1 item assemblers.
Then all low-quality items are immediately recycled.
All results dumped into the chest. Q1 materials go left into the requester chest, Q2+ go right into the Q2+ box.
A set of combinators picks appropriate recipe for the assmembler to the right.
All items come in correct ratios. The only potential clockage is overfill of higher-quality items in the middle chest caused by low-speed red inserter. Bots can move only the end results.
Parameterized blueprint (will grind up to Q3, can be easily changed to grind up to any quality):
05-01-2025, 14-59-47.png (2.29 MiB) Viewed 501 times
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 12:22 pm
by mmmPI
Hares wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 12:03 pm
The only potential clockage is overfill of higher-quality items in the middle chest caused by low-speed red inserter. Bots can move only the end results.
I think there is another potential clockage. Although statiscally unlikely/rare, it could in theory after a huge amount of time happens a streak of bad luck where the "middle chest" would fill with only say "epic concrete".
Without an external source of "epic material" that could guarantee you will consume them, or a recycler setup to potentially recycle them, you have to size the buffer of the "middle chest" to "infinity" to protect against this.
( the same idea if you pick up manually all the legendary processor for an hour or so , it would somehow simulate a streak of bad luck in the recycler ).
Edit : i'm using similar setup, so i don't really consider it a problem worth solving, but in theory it's there, it just almost never happen, depending on how you play and the scale at which such concept are implemented, with 3 legendary steel chest maybe the risk of this problem occuring are 1 every 10000 years or a order of magnitude similar.
Re: Quality icons for items & entities are indistinguishable
Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 12:27 pm
by Hares
mmmPI wrote: Thu May 01, 2025 12:22 pm
Edit : i'm using similar setup, so i don't really consider it a problem worth solving, but in theory it's there, it just almost never happen, depending on how you play and the scale at which such concept are implemented, with 3 legendary steel chest maybe the risk of this problem occuring are 1 every 10000 years or a order of magnitude similar.
The linked topic to me isn't a bug but a consequence, or a visible occurence of what i tried to explain. Supposing the heat death of the universe doesn't come first !
It's like if you have a process that yields A and B with 50 % chances, and you can consume 1A and 1B at the same time only.
If you have a buffer of size 10, and the process yields "A" 11 times in a row, then it's ruined, the buffer is filled with A's and it get stuck because there's no room for B's.
Unless you have a way to recycle the A's into nothingness or if you have an external source of B's. ( or if you do manual intervention ). As this would allow to change the in theorical answer from "yes" to "no".
Still doesn't make the icon easier to distinguish though x)
that's why i tried to "help"