[0.9] Big Worms at start

[Darthlawsuit]

Can we do something about big worms being part of the first bases generated. It is near impossible to take out a base in the start when you only have an SMG vs big worms. It is pretty much early game breaking.

[tbarros]

yeah there was a discussion on this link about it
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =16&t=1779

I think the Devs are doing something about it at the moment

[slpwnd]

I have lowered the numbers a bit and will do some testing to see how it looks. Though the map generation is a black magic so one never knows. We will try to do some more tweaks to make sure the starting are is "good" (not just big worms but also resources, trees, etc.) for one of the future releases.

[Cerus]

I think I'd like to see tackling small bases be more feasible in the beginning, there's very little curve. My biggest issue with the bases themselves is that it feels like your either equipped to demolish everything with impunity, or you have virtually no chance.

As far as general starting conditions go, I think what I'd *really* like to see is more factory options that can cover a wider variety of starting conditions, rather than trying to always ensure the starting conditions are "perfect". For example, if you have no water nearby, you could pursue a wind power plant option, or moisture condensation tools, or wells to get access to hidden water sources, requiring some kind of tech or other work to find that doesn't rely on water. For every resource that might be lacking in a given situation, offer some way to compensate at the expense of efficiency, and make sure it doesn't scale too easily to prevent it from becoming more attractive than a "natural" or primary source.

[ssilk]

That's a very good point here... Maybe crying for perfect starting conditions is the wrong way. Making it possible to have ANY starting condition is eventually the better way.

[slpwnd]

@cerus That is a good thinking and something that would eventually provide great replayability imho. But the danger is that the game will become much more complex. Like at the moment you DO need iron / copper / stone / coal in the beginning, otherwise there is no chance. I can imagine replacing coal need with wood or something (provided something like treefarm mod exists in the vanilla), however for the rest it would require a lot more new recipes and entities imho.

[Cerus]

Yeah, development time is the big sink in that approach. I'm not that concerned about added complexity, I've found that complexity of that sort is only really a problem (from a user confusion standpoint) if the interface can't organize it correctly.

One nice thing about approaching this as a set of secondary resource paths is that you can focus on your primary sources first, get that balance right, then start back at "tier 1" for secondary sources and see how the additions to flexibility affect things upstream as you go.

[Darthlawsuit]

@cerus That is a good thinking and something that would eventually provide great replayability imho. But the danger is that the game will become much more complex. Like at the moment you DO need iron / copper / stone / coal in the beginning, otherwise there is no chance. I can imagine replacing coal need with wood or something (provided something like treefarm mod exists in the vanilla), however for the rest it would require a lot more new recipes and entities imho.

The problem isn't resources but that big worms kill me in 3 hits and they outrange me =/. They are the closest base to me and they are untouchable. I wanted to kill them and slow down the evolution factor from advancing but that big worm is unkillable without rockets and shielding. When I first got my SMG I charged that base only to die to something I cannot kill =/ rather annoying. Haven't checked any other bases since all the other ones are beyond the thick forests in the north.