Balancing of Capacities of Containers

[thereaverofdarkness]

I'm just looking for at least a single good argument that will justify current scale of chests, but will not justify infinite chest, or rifle with 99999 damage, or impenetrable shield, or any other god-mod things.

Anyone who gives a specific number has already done so. They may not have explained their justification, but in all cases they selected that number because it felt right to them. It was enough without being too much, in their opinion.

[Hannu]

I don't follow your logic here. You make wagons have 8 times capacity, people will build even shorter trains than they do already, but then you don't want short trains? because they look like toys?

I do not care what "people" does. Many use 1 or 2 wagon trains already and I do not want to prevent it. But as I said, when I need thousand items per second or more, current trains does not work well. There are solutions, what I call Factorio-optimal, but I would like that they were closer to reality. Realistically I do not expect any increase in vanilla train capacity and it is OK for me to mod the game to what gives me more fun.

If the goal is having longer trains, increasing capacity will not do it. You need to remove the advantages of the 1-4 wagon train in the first place, cap it's speed, cap it's acceleration, let one locomotive pull 10+ wagons at a comparable speed, let wagons have breaks keeping long trains stopping distance in check, which would be a different suggestion.

I would like more realistic physics what comes to top speeds and accelerations and that would give more advantage to long trains. But I do not want to remove other playstyles. Stations for 10 or 20 wagon are very tedious to build and belt buses which can handle such amount of stuff and look good are more tedious. I understand that vast majority of players do not want to build such extreme things.

The reallife reasons for long freight trains is not "high capacity", indeed if in real life they could somehow squash 8 times the load into one wagon (on existing lines accounting for height, width, and weight restrictions) and have a shorter, more manageable train they would. But in real life a couple of locomotives are powerful enough to haul that, speed limits mean a short train is not much faster, train separation rules mean you can't run two short trains on a line instead of 1 long, one driver for a long train is cheaper than multiple drivers for short ones, etc.

I know that. But all these reasons are impractical or even impossible to model in the game. However, long trains look more realistic and give better immersion (personal opinion, of course) so I hope that game would support such playstyle, even reasons are more aesthetic and rolegame based.

[Hannu]

Following your logic, let's just enable God-mode in vanilla. It fits perfectly into your arguments. Infinite chest for everyone! Why not?! Just don't use it if you don't want to.

As far as I know, the god mode can be enabled with one command and in my opinion it should be so even I have never tried. There may be reasons to use it, for example test some setup.

I want to achieve things I decide and set my own rules in games. I do not hate overpowered things. I may even use them temporarily to decrease tedious work. For example I use often commands to delete biters when I need huge areas even I have ability to do it with nukes. It is just too tedious use precious free time to boring clearing work. However, I want to keep biters active to give varying load to my factory when it runs normally. All cheating aspects are totally meaningless things if I play alone. Cheating is possible if I take part to some communal game and break rules but not when I play alone. Cheating is breaking promises or contracts I have made with other humans, not anything I can do against computer program.

[Hannu]

I'm just looking for at least a single good argument that will justify current scale of chests, but will not justify infinite chest, or rifle with 99999 damage, or impenetrable shield, or any other god-mod things.

Good argument is for example possibility to build large production plants automatically. I can put things to provider chests, set up roboports, let bots work and after an hour or two they have built for example complete iron smelting unit with capacity of million plates in hour including railyards, loading and unloading platforms, full concrete tiling, defense structures etc. If I need several such units in my base it is certainly a very good reason to be able to build them automatically, even several units at the same time in different areas of my map.

It may not be a good argument for your style, if you make smaller factories or build the whole base in compact area, but it is generally a good argument. Large chests does not take anything from your style, but 8 stack provider chests would make my playstyle much more tedious. I had to build hundreds of chests and fill them all manually. Entertaining value of the game would be significantly lower (without modding, which I would make immediately after such nerfing, but it would also need somewhat tedious work and be away from my limited play time).

[leadraven]

Good argument is for example possibility to build large production plants automatically. I can put things to provider chests, set up roboports, let bots work and after an hour or two they have built for example complete iron smelting unit with capacity of million plates in hour including railyards, loading and unloading platforms, full concrete tiling, defense structures etc. If I need several such units in my base it is certainly a very good reason to be able to build them automatically, even several units at the same time in different areas of my map.

Mega factories are one of distinctive feature of the game, no doubt. But how big chests help you to build and run it? Do you manually transport all required items to construction site?! I think it takes a lot of time. Why not to automate transportation of construction materials, or just use infinite chest (since you use cheats)?

Should I really explain why people are playing single games in hardcore difficulties without cheating, or why people are playing Dark Souls?

[thereaverofdarkness]

8 stack provider chests would make my playstyle much more tedious. I had to build hundreds of chests and fill them all manually. Entertaining value of the game would be significantly lower (without modding, which I would make immediately after such nerfing, but it would also need somewhat tedious work and be away from my limited play time).

What impact do you think it would have on your playstyle if basic chests were reduced in capacity, but new, larger (more ground space) storage options were made available, allowing you to store more total items per single "chest"?

[Hannu]

Mega factories are one of distinctive feature of the game, no doubt. But how big chests help you to build and run it? Do you manually transport all required items to construction site?! I think it takes a lot of time. Why not to automate transportation of construction materials, or just use infinite chest (since you use cheats)?

I have work train and I put stuff in train, make rails to target area, put stuff in provider chests, put roboports in area and let robots build. Automated work train would be possible, but it would be tedious extra work to think such lines and logistics. It is just laborious, not interesting of logistically challenging. Actually, sometimes I put concrete in service train, which visits regularly all my factories, and let bots pave factories slowly during tens of hours, because it may take several tens of thousands concretes to pave single large factory.

Should I really explain why people are playing single games in hardcore difficulties without cheating, or why people are playing Dark Souls?

It is not necessary. But I do not see how that should be only option for all who does not feel slow and tedious grinding entertaining. I would understand better, if such playstyle was impossible, but it is not.

[Hannu]

What impact do you think it would have on your playstyle if basic chests were reduced in capacity, but new, larger (more ground space) storage options were made available, allowing you to store more total items per single "chest"?

Probably not much, mostly aesthetic problems. I had to make larger and more impractical rail terminals. Temporary building would work very well with large warehouse and small passive provider. I have sometimes thought that for example 6 x 2 platform storage buildings would be nice but not searched made mods. Current chests work quite well. Actually a steel chest with 10 slots would fit well with current wagons. A wagon load would fit in 4 chests which is practical build.

I play much with Bob's and Angel's mods which have large storage silos, but use them only occasionally. I prefer void chest if I get huge amounts of side product before I have tech to recycle it. Eventually I try to circulate everything and avoid voiding.