Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

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BlakeMW
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Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by BlakeMW »

The Problem

The fundamental problem with the eff2 and eff3 module is that a "a watt saved by an eff2 module, is much more expensive than a watt generated by solar/accu". Both have a upfront cost and then zero cost per watt so the investment can't ever pay off compared with solar/accu.

Eff2 and Eff3 can never be useful unless they are allowed to operate on things which consume like 1-4MW... then they could save enough watts to justify the high investment.

Turns out there is such a thing, assemblers boosted by prod and speed modules.

A potential solution

Initially my thought was that eff modules could be balanced around reducing the final or absolute energy consumption post all (other) module effects, rather than the base energy consumption, though that is iffy especially in terms of the balance between eff1 and the higher level modules.

Perhaps a better thought, is that there could be a separate parameter: "Absolute Consumption", the absolute consumption parameter would affect the final energy consumption instead of the base energy consumption.

So the modules then might look like:
  • Eff1: -30% Base Consumption
  • Eff2: -30% Base Consumption, -10% Absolute Consumption
  • Eff3: -30% Base Consumption, -20% Absolute Consumption
How good are we looking?

In a Prod3+Speed3 setup we're looking at energy consumption of about 2MW, so directly in an assembler 3:
  • eff2: -63kW + -194kW = -256kW
  • eff3: -63kW + -387kW = -450kW
  • eff2 in a beacon (8 assemblers): -256kW / 2 * 8 = -1MW
  • eff3 in a beacon (8 assemblers): -450 / 2 * 8 = -1.8MW
Those numbers are big enough that the large cost of an eff2 module or eff3 module might be justified. It's nowhere near a no-brainer, because by using an eff module you miss out on a prod or speed module.

Other uses for Absolute Consumption

Perhaps it could also be useful for Productivity modules, to make the energy cost more punishing when used in combination with speed beacons. For example the 3 levels could simply have +10%,+20%+30% Absolute Consumption and no Base Consumption. The lower speed already provides a pretty severe energy penalty, but that speed/energy penalty is easily mitigated with speed modules. The absolute consumption would be unmitigatable except directly by eff2/3 modules.
Photoloss
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Re: Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by Photoloss »

Eff2 modules do have a niche use: they are needed to cap out energy savings on furnaces. On a map with very dense biter bases the cost of clearing out enough land for more solar panels may well be greater than the module cost, especially if/when laser turret creep and energy shields get rebalanced. They're also needed to cut pollution on refineries and chemical plants, but putting a resource cost on that is more difficult.

I think adding a new stat just adds confusion in regards to stacking with other effects. Not a problem for me personally if the mechanics are known, but for practical purposes it would be easier to just massively crank up the percentage on Eff2/3 and make them stack additively with consumption increases. A -200% Eff3 might even be worth putting in a beacon in some cases.
bobucles
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Re: Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by bobucles »

Unfortunately there is no realistic reason to use efficiency modules except to cut down early game consumption and pollution. When pollution maxes out there is not much reason to use them any more.

Speed beacons have an odd property of reducing overall energy use when paired with productivity boosted machines. That bonus DOES scale in a multiplicative way, while efficiency modules ONLY work in an additive way. Because of this players have no need to use efficiency modules in post game.
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MeduSalem
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Re: Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by MeduSalem »

bobucles wrote:Speed beacons have an odd property of reducing overall energy use when paired with productivity boosted machines. That bonus DOES scale in a multiplicative way, while efficiency modules ONLY work in an additive way. Because of this players have no need to use efficiency modules in post game.
But the effect of Speed Beacons reducing the energy consumption has also its limits. It will never really be able to compete with just using EMs in machines themselves without any beacons whatsoever when comparing the total consumption.


That said I'm with Photoloss somehow... if a single EM3 would reduce -100% or even more energy consumption or something like that then it might even make sense to use them together with the Speed Modules in Beacons. (Apart from enabling more interesting combinations of SMs and EMs even without any Beacons)

I'm currently working on an excel sheet that allows me to calculate the entire resource chain for a specified recipe... and also take things like SM3s/PM3s/EM3s as well as Beacons into account to make a comparison of what works best for what... not only resource wise but also on how much total energy consumption the entire resource chain would generate with particular setups.
During that I noticed that for machines with only 2 Module slots if populated with PM3s then the Speed Beacons don't help reducing the energy below what would be used without PM3s/Beacons. So in machines with only 2 Module slots if populated with PM3s a combination of SM3s and EM3s in beacons is actually better sometimes if someone finds a real good ratio of SM3/EM3s. It's really weird.


Another thing to consider is... what if EMs could actually effect Beacon consumption itself? Because that might also offer some rather interesting builds.
BlakeMW
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Re: Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by BlakeMW »

MeduSalem wrote: During that I noticed that for machines with only 2 Module slots if populated with PM3s then the Speed Beacons don't help reducing the energy below what would be used without PM3s/Beacons.
You'd hope not. After all the primary purpose of PM is stretching scarce resources and simplifying logistics, any energy savings which can be wrangled out of a prod+speed setup are a purely tangential benefit. In contrast the primary purpose of the EM is saving energy and it has no other function to justify occupying a module slot. In a way it could be considered absurd that Prod+Speed can save energy at all.
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MeduSalem
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Re: Making Eff2/Eff3 modules useful

Post by MeduSalem »

BlakeMW wrote:In a way it could be considered absurd that Prod+Speed can save energy at all.
Well... as you said yourself in one of the other energy saving threads... an additional assembler is more costly than another Beacon... most of the time.

I say most of the time becase there is a breakeven point for that as well... I believe I have calculated once that the edge Beacons that only affect 2 Assemblers are pretty much dead weight or so.

That's why I'm actually fine with setups where the edge assemblers/furnaces aren't fully covered by 8 Beacons. The missing additional speed gain doesn't matter that much on them, but the additioal 2x480kW from the Beacons are badly distributed.

In Infinite Beacon/Assembler Array calculation everything is fine, but in reality we have edges.

The actual layout matters quite a lot if one really wants to ramp up the min/maxing. Then it really matters if you build one single long row of assemblers with 2 rows of beacons or if you eventually decide to have additional rows of assemblers and additional rows of beacons.

The best setups are the ones that come closest to a square for that reason.
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