Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

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mikehendi
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Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

Post by mikehendi »

So I have this 2-way train network with 'passing bays' below, with a train stop on either end, the trains are driving between those two train stops. This network works correctly, as in no train ever drives on the 2-way track before the next 'passing bay' is free, preventing gridlocks.

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1.png
1.png (756.21 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
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In the screenshot below you can see the chain signal for train 1 is red, because train 2 is still blocking the bay. All is great.

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2.png
2.png (904.97 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
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However... here comes the problem: there is an important train stop on the 2-way train track, which causes the chain signal to turn blue. (train stop "Important Stop" is now added to the train's schedules).

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3.png
3.png (1.01 MiB) Viewed 2494 times
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Because the trains next stop is the Important Stop, it does NOT look anymore if the next bay is free, but just drives to the station, causing the gridlock below:

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4.png
4.png (507.81 KiB) Viewed 2494 times
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Of course this is a simplified example of the real setup. So, I can't do with fewer trains, I can't move the rails, I can't put the train stop in a passing bay etc.
Is there perhaps a way to force the train to look past the station to see if the next bay is free before it can depart to the station?

Maybe something with circuit conditions, like in the screenshot below?
(I know absolutely nothing about circuits, which will immediately become apparant when you look at the screenshot :/ )

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5.png
5.png (1.77 MiB) Viewed 2494 times
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It seems to me as if the train stop acts as a normal rail signal, so because the small remaining part of the 2-way track (between station and right passing bay) is free, the train from the left passing bay is allowed to go to the station (if I manually place a locomotive just behind the station, the chain signal at the first passing bay turns red again).

Anyway, is there anyway to solve this problem? Either by better signalling or circuit magic? Any help is greatly appreciated :)

If needed, a blueprint of the setup above including trains with fuel and schedules etc. is in the box below.

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Thanks for any help :)
Last edited by mikehendi on Sat May 09, 2020 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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quyxkh
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? Any solutions?

Post by quyxkh »

mikehendi wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:11 pm Is there perhaps a way to force the train to look past the station to see if the next bay is free before it can depart to the station?
You can put signals in to get that effect:
snap@T695028=3664x992+116-82,z2.jpg
snap@T695028=3664x992+116-82,z2.jpg (331.09 KiB) Viewed 2481 times
The two new signals are wired to their downstream chain signals, and they're set to close if green = 0. So if an entering train can't proceed, the signal's red, closing the entry chain: a train can't enter the strait unless it can leave, and since there's no other source of trains to occupy the exit block there's nothing to pull the rug out after it enters.

edit: green *equals* 0, duh. I had it right in the build, brain-farted while writing it up.
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? Any solutions?

Post by mikehendi »

Thanks so much :)

I have just made my first ever working circuit in Factorio :)
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disentius
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

Post by disentius »

You don't need them. if you signal like this:
Trains 1 track with station.gif
Trains 1 track with station.gif (926 KiB) Viewed 2438 times
It will work without circuits. :)

You get blue because you placed this signal:
wrong signal.png
wrong signal.png (301.14 KiB) Viewed 2438 times
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

Post by mikehendi »

@disentius, can you add a 4th and a 5th train to that system? it's impossible for 3 trains to gridlock the system, as there is room on either side for 3 trains.

The rail signal seems placed correctly, it makes the first bay look into the 2nd bay, and if its free the train can depart. (edit: it's the chain signal next to that rail signal which is redundant, though it won't mess up anything)
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

Post by disentius »

About that signal: [edit] you are right it is redundant.
You have more trains than blocks (a piece of rails bordered by signals where a train can wait) the system will always deadlock eventually. if you want more trains , you have to make sure you have enough blocks between the "important" train station and the end station. One passing loop means 3 blocks, so this setup can acommodate 3 trains. I that case quixkh gave you a solution winch works fine :)
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Re: Train stop on 2-way train track 'overrides' chain signals? [solved]

Post by disentius »

I looked in to this some more: It could be a bug(or hidden feature :mrgreen: )
The cause of the problem seems to be what you said in the OP: the look ahead of the train signal changes if you placer a station in between the chain signal and the signal(s) it has to look at in front of it.
inconsistent chain signal behavior 1.png
inconsistent chain signal behavior 1.png (872.33 KiB) Viewed 2359 times
I would expect that - if this is the case- there would be a visual clue, e.g. a block marker, when you place a station, but that is not the case.
So, you have to "bridge"the signal around the station.
inconsistent chain signal behavior 2.png
inconsistent chain signal behavior 2.png (329.51 KiB) Viewed 2359 times
(Added: a five train solution:))
5 train solution.gif
5 train solution.gif (2.04 MiB) Viewed 2359 times


[EDIT] Made a bug report. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=84830
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