Development and Discussion

[mexmer]

Grab the latest updates for refining and petro from the portal, otherwise it will crash because of the dependencies

There you go:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip

can this be used with processing mod, or it's better to avoid it?

if i understood correctly, this one should be successor, but considering release date, seems to be elder, compared to processing.

From what I understand it's meant to replace the processing mod.

that's what i understood from one of angels posts before, but consider he didn't touch smelting code for 8 months, while processing got small, but still some updates, except port to .14

[aklesey1]

can this be used with processing mod, or it's better to avoid it?

Better to avoid, because it reworked version with some elements from petrochem mod, how could I make sure it is planned in a more complex chains? bio processing is missing, bio processing is using for getting catalyst for refinering mod and for getting synthetic wood

[Nilaus]

If you are reading this: We need a new Petrochems megatrain video

In Vanilla 0.15 there will be tanker trains, please make sure you add support to all your petrochemicals to go on these trains. I am think of making a new campaign where I have different locations for the different processes (Refining, Processing, Petrochemicals), which isn't really easy without tankers. I know there are modded tankers, but I think it would be a great way to show case the new feature in vanilla together with a more mature version of Petrochemicals.

[orzelek]

If you are reading this: We need a new Petrochems megatrain video

In Vanilla 0.15 there will be tanker trains, please make sure you add support to all your petrochemicals to go on these trains. I am think of making a new campaign where I have different locations for the different processes (Refining, Processing, Petrochemicals), which isn't really easy without tankers. I know there are modded tankers, but I think it would be a great way to show case the new feature in vanilla together with a more mature version of Petrochemicals.

If I recall correctlly vanilla tankers will support all fluids no problem.
And thre was also plan for barrelling of any fluid but not sure if it's still on the table.

[jcranmer]

Grab the latest updates for refining and petro from the portal, otherwise it will crash because of the dependencies

There you go:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip

I looked at the code really quickly, and I noticed it doesn't have the alien artifacts or the wood generation stuff from the old processing add-on. While omitting wood makes some sense (given that bob's now contains greenhouses, which are available and effective a lot earlier), was dropping the alien artifact generation intentional? Also, it appears to still be lacking a replacement for iron ore -> ferric chloride.

On the other hand, you do appear to be in the process of adding some new metal ores, presumably primarily for catalysts in petrochem?

[mexmer]

i think fractions need "lighter" color. it's hard to see, how full is tank.
while i understand your reasoning behind color, it's quite impractical (and yes i can read numbers, so i know tank is not full, still the bar should be visible, for me is not)

http://imgur.com/a/16CoY

[Arch666Angel]

The Graph is not up to date BUT someone made a wonderful mod: viewtopic.php?f=92&t=33269

I'm aware of that awesome mod but it's much easier to see what gets used where when there is a single graph depicting it.
I'm curious, how did you manage the what-goes-where relationships during developing petrochem? Was it all in your head?


Another thing that could help was if the hydrocarbons had more distinct icons. I like the general idea of them but having only about 1/6'th of the area of the icon be used for showing the molecule makes it relatively difficult to differentiate different hydrocarbons. Sadly, I have no clue how to achieve that while keeping the current theme of the icons.

I'm not sure what do you mean by generic recipes so hard to tell.
If they work but there are no proper icons etc then all is good

I think he meant they might be missing some components and some balancing would be nice.

I do need to polish up my early roboports mod that I made for angel/bob's/(marathon)/(science cost tweaker) masochists out there that would like to be able to use bots before 20h of game passed (With marathon that would be more like 40 or more)

That would be lovely. I've been using pocketbots for ages and it's a drag when any of them gets killed early on.

I did use my own flowchart and then the revised one pyanodon provided, after I had the basics down it was easier to add chains because they would rely on the basic chemicals, for the rocket fuel for example I only had to add the recipes and intermediates to produce it. So adding more "Stuff" would be an easy task compared to setting the mod up initially. I also had a chat with an oil engineer here on the forum, who suggested something that became the initial idea to do this. viewtopic.php?t=23391

The hydrocarbon are problematic to display, no matter if you just the molecule pictures, or the "styled" icons, because they all do look almost the same they all are just white and black dots (hydrogen and carbon), if at all I had to come up with something absolutely abstract. But to give you a tip: Use the different pipes bob provides, you can kind of color code your fluid bus with them.

Wow this angel smelting 0.1.0 mod looks intriguing

1) Using chlorine to process titanium ore
2) Using ammonia to process tungsten ore, hmmm......... now tungsten acid is missing in process chain, strange solution
3) Using coke to process iron ore - wow wow, ahahah its can be hard for early stages (I was afraid that the same fate may befall the copper ore, but all okey now)
4) Using coal to process tin ore
5) Using carbon monoxide to process to zinc ore
6) Using carbon monoxide to process to nickel ore

OMG i'll need may coal and many carbon monoxide
We don't require water to get carbon and that's good

Yes mod is young, and time'll show us the aftermaths

And this pretty nice graphics with plastic tones - i like this style - it sets the tone to all factorio graphics, I'm starting to feel his factorio differently
I think this mod lacks a machine for the melting of alloys, and machine to get liquid metals and our 6 raw ores

For the most part I agree with the forthcoming changes, because movement is life, continue in the same direction

See it as tiered progression:
tier 0: crushing and smelting the raw ore -> pro: easy to get to work, con: loss of yield
tier 1: refining and smelting the ores -> pro: can be used universally and for other things than smelting, con: takes more work
tier 2: refining, processing and smelting the ores -> pro: increase in yield (max 50%) faster than vanilla, con: more complex and space consuming

Grab the latest updates for refining and petro from the portal, otherwise it will crash because of the dependencies

There you go:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip

Here's what I think is a close to complete english locaization. I've entered: tech, entity , liquid and item localizations based on the graphic icons that are available atm.

Oh hey thanks for the localization, my process is to do the localization last so I dont have to do it multiple time while changing things around in the development but I will add it to the mod.

I took a short look at smelting and it seems that tech-entity relationship needs fixing.
If I do full tech unlock I get all 4 marks of various processing entities but they don't show up on respective tech unlocks for some reason.

Nothing is final in smelting for now, was playing around with the tech to get an idea how I might organize them but I'm not 100% sure yet. That's why the machines are all unlocked for now.

Grab the latest updates for refining and petro from the portal, otherwise it will crash because of the dependencies

There you go:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip

can this be used with processing mod, or it's better to avoid it?

if i understood correctly, this one should be successor, but considering release date, seems to be elder, compared to processing.

You can try, but I guarantee for nothing. But it is meant to be a replacement for the ore processing part.

If you are reading this: We need a new Petrochems megatrain video

In Vanilla 0.15 there will be tanker trains, please make sure you add support to all your petrochemicals to go on these trains. I am think of making a new campaign where I have different locations for the different processes (Refining, Processing, Petrochemicals), which isn't really easy without tankers. I know there are modded tankers, but I think it would be a great way to show case the new feature in vanilla together with a more mature version of Petrochemicals.

I assume that there is no need for special recipes to get fluids working in a tanker waggon, they should work like the railtanker is now that it is basically a storage tank on wheels.
I also have the heavy pump still here, which will go out as an addon to petrochem and will have the barreling recipes for every fluid my mods add plus some extra.

Grab the latest updates for refining and petro from the portal, otherwise it will crash because of the dependencies

There you go:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/angelso ... _0.1.0.zip

I looked at the code really quickly, and I noticed it doesn't have the alien artifacts or the wood generation stuff from the old processing add-on. While omitting wood makes some sense (given that bob's now contains greenhouses, which are available and effective a lot earlier), was dropping the alien artifact generation intentional? Also, it appears to still be lacking a replacement for iron ore -> ferric chloride.

On the other hand, you do appear to be in the process of adding some new metal ores, presumably primarily for catalysts in petrochem?

The alien artefact creation will be in the new bio-processing alongside the wood/algae production chains. As with smelting I can drop a preview, but I havent done anything for it besides splitting it up.

So the ultimate goal is to grow this into a full overhaul, maybe still relying on bobs machinery, but I'm planing ahead as far as resources and materials go, so yes there will be manganese, platinum and chrome on the metal side and the plastic/resin recipes will actually produce different types of plastics/resin and so on, also have something set up in refining to add rare-earth minerals...What I'm getting down at the moment is the resource generation mods, after that there will be something equal to bobplates and so on.

[Arch666Angel]

i think fractions need "lighter" color. it's hard to see, how full is tank.
while i understand your reasoning behind color, it's quite impractical (and yes i can read numbers, so i know tank is not full, still the bar should be visible, for me is not)

http://imgur.com/a/16CoY

Yeah I'm aware of that, I made a pass to change fluid colors, but I got only half of them at that point and I added more after that, so this will be a process for the next few version sure, but nothing I fell is immediate game breaking.

[Nexela]

Not sure if it does but petrochem should probably have an optional dependency on shinybobs

Also probably a moot point now but bobmods has a nice lib function replace_recipe_in_all (or something like that) that replaces all of one ingredient with another. He uses it to replace the circuits in his electronics mod

[aklesey1]

Arch666angel please add color to filling bar in future, because some gases and some fluids haven't this bar now and its hard to understand the degree of filling in the tank, then it is required to watch the precise number of fluid or gas amount

See it as tiered progression:
tier 0: crushing and smelting the raw ore -> pro: easy to get to work, con: loss of yield
tier 1: refining and smelting the ores -> pro: can be used universally and for other things than smelting, con: takes more work
tier 2: refining, processing and smelting the ores -> pro: increase in yield (max 50%) faster than vanilla, con: more complex and space consuming

U mean - profit then consequence or problem then consequence? - I just want to understand the meaning of what you say, I don't know much about the abbreviations of the phrases in spoken English

But why u mean faster??? We need more time for all process in tier 2, this is the longest process - ore have come a long way from mining to smelting

Adding platinum as metal and chrome is metal - ohhhh nice to hear, i approve this idea



All these ideas is really funny, but i have one tiny-tiny problem - my factorio becomes really huge like fat pig with these all modern hi-tech future solutions, no no I'm not complaining, I'm often looking for the solution how to protect my poor factory - i'm using bob enemies mod, with this mod game becomes like tower defense but its funny

P. S, i'll ask bobingabout to add new late stage enemies to his mod, which will become more dangerous

[hoho]

But to give you a tip: Use the different pipes bob provides, you can kind of color code your fluid bus with them.

When stuff is already in pipes I have no real problems with it as I can just hover over them and immediately see what the name is.

My problems are mostly when I try to figure out what sort of products recipes give. Hovering over the recipes doesn't really tell you, they only show the icon without name like this:

factorio_recipe.PNG (150.11 KiB) Viewed 6059 times

I've actually considered making a feature request for the game to list the products of a recipe the same way as ingredients are listed with both name and icon.

[Arch666Angel]

But to give you a tip: Use the different pipes bob provides, you can kind of color code your fluid bus with them.

When stuff is already in pipes I have no real problems with it as I can just hover over them and immediately see what the name is.

My problems are mostly when I try to figure out what sort of products recipes give. Hovering over the recipes doesn't really tell you, they only show the icon without name like this:

factorio_recipe.PNG

I've actually considered making a feature request for the game to list the products of a recipe the same way as ingredients are listed with both name and icon.

Yeah I was thinking the same, speacially after watching arumbas video, one thing I could do is add each output to the description, but that would be some work

[iceman_1212]

This suggestion is for any future versions of Angel's Processing - I know you're no longer maintaining Angel's Processing so not at all expecting an update on that front - just wanted to call your attention to this issue in case processed ore/ingots make it into any future mods.

***

I really can't believe I'm about to suggest this given my stance on modules, especially productivity modules...

It may make sense to enable productivity modules on ingot --> plate smelting and processed ore --> plate smelting, atleast when Angel's is running joint with Bob's (which I imagine is the case for most folks).

Why?

Once we reach lategame, the mk4 Electrolysers have 6 module slots, so if you fill it with T3 Productivity Modules (which I just did in my current save for Titanium), the resulting 60% productivity boost is a better yield than the 50% (implied) productivity boost from the going through ingot smelting. (8 ore --> 2 processed ore --> 12 ingots --> 12 plates. Since we get 4 extra plates on top of the 8 plates that we'd normally get from the 8 ore, it's effectively a 50% productivity boost.)

(This is playing without Bob's modules installed and after disabling the usage of productivity modules on intermediate products.)

I'm just finishing up my starter base and now that I have all of my mk4/mk5 toys , I'm getting ready to put together my big base - this finding definitely changes my strategy for end-game plate production.

P.S. I thought about whether it makes sense to instead disable prod modules for direct ore --> plate smelting but that contradicts vanilla.

[mexmer]

But to give you a tip: Use the different pipes bob provides, you can kind of color code your fluid bus with them.

When stuff is already in pipes I have no real problems with it as I can just hover over them and immediately see what the name is.

My problems are mostly when I try to figure out what sort of products recipes give. Hovering over the recipes doesn't really tell you, they only show the icon without name like this:

factorio_recipe.PNG

I've actually considered making a feature request for the game to list the products of a recipe the same way as ingredients are listed with both name and icon.

i think, this one should be addressed in new gui revamp.
devs are already aware of issue, when product names are not displayed (either in tech tree tooltips, production tooltips, or recipe tooltips).
not that i know eta, but they were talking about that few days ago on steejios stream, fun fact is, that this happen even with some vanilla recipes.

it's possible it's also listed on list of known bugs.

[aklesey1]

Guys, u know, I want to show the icon of a single product even if the prescription 1 final product, it would be very convenient - there are many recipes with 2 final products and that's convenient, but when i use recipe with 1 final product i need to read description, and the icon doesn't always show the meaning of the recipe

[jcranmer]

So I was poking about, it turns out that you can make any recipe with one input (or one item and one fluid input) into a furnace as opposed to an assembling machine, i.e., it lets those recipes be chosen on demand, even if you have multiple outputs. I just did a cheatmode test the ore crushers, floatation cells, and ore refineries, and they worked, so the leaching plants should as well. The sorters are harder to do, since some of the recipes for sorters use multiple inputs, even though it's arguably more valuable that these be converted to furnaces (due to their sheer size and the fact that they already have a bajillion outputs).

Have you considered turning some of the facilities into furnaces instead?

[pyanodon]

(...)add rare-earth minerals...

Hahaha oh boy, we will have common things again XD. Ahahaha

[Arch666Angel]

Morning thoughts:
-Sulfur from Coal recipe, to get a bit of sulfur early on if needed
-CO2 from burning wood, alternative from CO2 from coal. Wood could be replaced later on with wood pellets which can be made out of the algae (yay something for the bio processing mod!)

[mexmer]

Morning thoughts:
-Sulfur from Coal recipe, to get a bit of sulfur early on if needed
-CO2 from burning wood, alternative from CO2 from coal. Wood could be replaced later on with wood pellets which can be made out of the algae (yay something for the bio processing mod!)

tbh. bio processing is now pita, it's not useable early game due building demands and there is atm. no point getting wooden boards from bio processing, when you make them directly from wood or later from chemical synthing.

i like idead of getting CO2 from wood, you could also think about way to make charcoal from wood

[aklesey1]

Morning thoughts:
-Sulfur from Coal recipe, to get a bit of sulfur early on if needed
-CO2 from burning wood, alternative from CO2 from coal. Wood could be replaced later on with wood pellets which can be made out of the algae (yay something for the bio processing mod!)

Tanks Arch666Angel but i can get sulfur from waste water and from hydrogen sulfide, which i can get from coal, and yes on early stages
Getting CO2 from wood is good idea

Yuoki industries also provide many useful resources like dirt and many fuel products wood, coal and his alien elements - N4 and F7 if I remember correctly
Maybe you'll think about implementation early resources акщь Yuoki mods - getting dirt and stone when mining raw ores with drill?