Development and Discussion

[Jackalope_Gaming]

Any plans to update mods for 0.15 ?

Much of Angel's also gets used with Bob's, so the full update will depend on what Bob ends up doing. There's a lot of new things available in .15 so overhaul mods are going to take time, especially in terms of tweaking things for research and all that. Plus the settings for complex crafting and marathon mode have to be accounted for too eventually. It's kinda crazy, so make sure to be gentle on modders.

[aklesey1]

Any plans to update mods for 0.15 ?

A lot of work is necessary to him so it is necessary to wait patiently, I still wait when bob's mods will be updated, angel's mods partially depend from bob's mods but Arch666Angel planning to split from them and do some overhaul nad his mod complex system just look on smelting or petrochem mod for now

[Light]

Any plans to update mods for 0.15 ?

Naturally.

But you must remember that these people have lives outside of the game and 0.15 has changed much for both Angel and Bob. At the moment, Bob states that his mods may take up to a month to be in proper working order, just to give you a bit of scale when it comes to the work and time required to get things done right.

Given Bob's mods are typically used alongside Angel's, there's clearly a long wait required regardless. This was to be expected, so be patient.

[utoxin]

Angel started rolling updates for the simpler mods. So hopefully the others are in progress.

[Zyrconia]

Haven't played in quite a while. Got burned out.

And with 0.15, I'll be playing some vanilla, so there is time to update.

But I'm sure they will be all updated eventually.

Personally, I hope Angel does some new damn good looking ore graphics, in line with 0.15.

[nagapito]

Haven't played in quite a while. Got burned out.

And with 0.15, I'll be playing some vanilla, so there is time to update.

But I'm sure they will be all updated eventually.

Personally, I hope Angel does some new damn good looking ore graphics, in line with 0.15.

Ores and refining are already out with some nice graphics!

I just kinda deslike the infinite ores effect, if you have a full field of infite ores, the effect is too noisy

[Zyrconia]

Haven't played in quite a while. Got burned out.

And with 0.15, I'll be playing some vanilla, so there is time to update.

But I'm sure they will be all updated eventually.

Personally, I hope Angel does some new damn good looking ore graphics, in line with 0.15.

Ores and refining are already out with some nice graphics!

I just kinda deslike the infinite ores effect, if you have a full field of infite ores, the effect is too noisy

I noticed that 0.15 version is out but I did not test it.

Instead, I downloaded the mod and looked inside the ZIP and noticed that there are 1k spritesheets for the vanilla ores and small spritesheets for the new ores.

So it was only natural to suppose that there are no 0.15 styled updates to ore style.

But I the meantime I did some testing. I found that without Bob's Ores, Angel's Infinite ores will give the new graphics to normal ore and use older more chunky style for the infinite ore. It mix of the two doesn't look that bad.

But I did notice that infinite classic ores in the middle of finite ore patches are a lot rarer than they used to be. More often than not, instead of having a nested patch, there will be one large finite patch and a small infinite patch near it. Is this new and intentional? Or caused by no RSO?

With Angel's Refining, new style graphics are used. I guess the spritesheets are recolored?

I also noticed that with Refining, there is still the new uranium on the ground and it is not obtained by refining Angel's big6 ores. Will this be changed?

Angel's Infinite Ores is really remarkable. It has so many permutations!

PS: I also noticed that I can't seem to find any bobmonium or rubyte on the map. Is this caused by missing (because out of date) various Bob's mods?

[septemberWaves]

PS: I also noticed that I can't seem to find any bobmonium or rubyte on the map. Is this caused by missing (because out of date) various Bob's mods?

I'm reasonably sure those two ores are only used for the various metals from Bob's mods, so it wouldn't make sense for them to be present without Bob's metals.

[nagapito]

I just realized that while Petrochem adds a way of cracking coal into oil/gases derivates, it removes the cracking of naphatha into fuel oil.

Currently, there is no way of obtaining fuel oil except by processing crude oil....

[deimios]

Bob just updated a bunch of his mods and it looks like that broke refining.

[NekoDwarf]

It seems we need to whait before starting 0.15 game (few weeks) . And try to help beloved modmakers update their mods (All mods need a lot of balance. becouse of new mechanics). For Angels mod I thinck serious question is: what to do with uranium ore.

[septemberWaves]

That's a good point about the uranium ore actually.

I think Angel's ores could probably benefit from the new fluid miners, specifically crotinnium and jivolite. It's possible to produce basic acids with access to only the other four ores, and I think it would be interesting to see jivolite and possibly also crotinnium both require some sort of acid to mine them. Maybe even the more difficult-to-obtain acids like hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid. From that, jivolite could perhaps be a primary ore of uranium, with crotinnium being a secondary ore of uranium (producing less uranium, or only producing uranium with higher tiers of processing). That way, uranium mining is still gated behind acid-based mining, but does not require the presence of uranium ore on the map and also expands Angel's ores to use the new mining mechanic.

On top of that, perhaps uranium ore should be produced using several purified ores and a mineral catalyst (in addition to smaller yields being produced mixed with other ores by the usual imprecise sorting processes). That way uranium power becomes a relatively late-game thing.

[Light]

That's a good point about the uranium ore actually.

I think Angel's ores could probably benefit from the new fluid miners, specifically crotinnium and jivolite. It's possible to produce basic acids with access to only the other four ores, and I think it would be interesting to see jivolite and possibly also crotinnium both require some sort of acid to mine them. Maybe even the more difficult-to-obtain acids like hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid. From that, jivolite could perhaps be a primary ore of uranium, with crotinnium being a secondary ore of uranium (producing less uranium, or only producing uranium with higher tiers of processing). That way, uranium mining is still gated behind acid-based mining, but does not require the presence of uranium ore on the map and also expands Angel's ores to use the new mining mechanic.

On top of that, perhaps uranium ore should be produced using several purified ores and a mineral catalyst (in addition to smaller yields being produced mixed with other ores by the usual imprecise sorting processes). That way uranium power becomes a relatively late-game thing.

Problem is, some people just use refining and not petrochem. The other complication is that the uranium power mod will also be using this ore, so any changes made will directly impact that one as well.

To anyone else who has tested the vanilla reactor extensively, you'd know the amount of uranium ore you're looking at getting before enrichment is above 70,000. Once enrichment is complete, the need for ores die down considerably until you start to run a bit low on U-238. So in a sense it's already a late game tech, not only due to the late research it's locked behind, but also due to the massive mining effort you need to create just to get a sizable reactor started up.

It's also worth noting that refining already had purified ores to uranium ore (1x80%), the mineral slag to uranium ore (1x5%), plus the ore from imprecise jivolite sorting (1x100%) due to the mod. The balance recently implemented reduced the amount of ore obtained from each process so it wouldn't be complicated so much as resource heavy to maintain. This balance sounds like a perfect fit even for vanilla reactors as you'd need even more ore than ever to get it going depending on the method employed.

So I'd personally leave it exactly as it is already, so it plays friendly with both the vanilla and mod reactors.

[mcwaffles2003]

Angel, any chance on an angels nuclear mod?
i think a progression of heavy/light water reactors, breeder reactors, and molten salt reactors might be a great addition if its in line with your interests. only 2 new ores would need to be generated (plutonium and thorium) and it would make nuclear management much more difficult and interesting.I guess more materials could be required such as the intermediary isotopes of breeders.

Either way, something like this sounds totally like a type of expansion you would do.

And thank you for all the mods you have made so far, they make this game even deeper and more interesting

[Zyrconia]

The way I'd solve the uranium problem...

Step 1: pray that Uranium Power starts using the vanilla ore.

Step 2: if Refining is in use, remove uranium from the map and keep the current refining recipes unchanged for uranium. If Uranium Power is in use, it would operate normally, but with the ore from refining. If no Uranium Power, you would do vanilla power with the ore.

This would mean you can get uranium "mined" without sulphuric, but I feel that the complexity of Angel's Refining more than make up for it.

[nagapito]

Well, you will probably have to use sulphur or another acid during the processing of uranium so.....

But I would not be surprised if some funky late game mechanic appeared where using acid during mining would increase output or some ore patches become more mid game requiring some kind of acid.

[Mobius1]

I have an idea for the use of mining with fluid mechanic that was added on 0.15:

- New ore patch: "dirt schist", requires using acid to mine (sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrofluoric acid, perchloric acid, etc.) the productivity of the ore would be tied to the type of acid applied.

- New sorting mechanism: Fluid sorting
- Schist sorting w/ acid: 10 schist ore + 10 Chloric Acid = 10 uranium ore (vanilla extraction is 10 sulfuric = 10 ore)

- New flotation processes:
- Schist Hydro Refining: 4 schist ore + 100 Purified Water = 4 schist chunk + 0.03 Radioactive Geode + 100 Radioactive waste water
- Schist Crystals: 4 schist chunks + 100 Sulfuric Acid (10 chloric acid with petrochem) = 4 schist crystals
- Purified Schist: 4 schist crystals + 100 Perchloric Acid = 4 Purified Schist

- New sorting processes:
- Schist ore sorting:
4 crushed schist ore = 1 slag, 2 iron, 1 copper
6 schist chunk = 1 slag, 2 iron, 1 copper, 1 uranium ore (1 slag, 2 iron, 1 copper, 1 quartz, 1 uranium ore with bobores)
8 schist crystal = 1 slag, 3 iron, 1 copper, 2 uranium ore (1 slag, 3 iron, 1 copper, 1 quartz, 1 rutile, 1 uranium ore with bobores)
9 purified schist = 3 iron, 2 copper, 3 uranium ore (3 iron, 2 copper, 1 rutile, 1 chromium ore, 2 uranium)

- Uranium ore refining: 2 schist chunk + 2 crotinnium chunk + 1 radioactive catalyst = 3 uranium ore
- Uranium High Yield sorting: 2 Purified Schist + 2 Purified Crotinnium + 2 Purified Stiratite + 1 Radioactive Catalyst = 6 Uranium Ore
- Uranium ore sorting: 4 uranium ore + 1 Radioactive Catalyst = 3,9979 U-238 + 0,0021 U-235 (vanilla ratio = 0.0007 U-235 :: 0.9993 U-238, made in the Ore Sorting Facility and its 3x more productive than the centrifuge sorting)
- Radioactive Catalyst: 100 Crystal Seedling + 100 Mineral Sludge + 1 Radioactive Geode = 10 Radioactive Catalyst

- New Water Purification Process Chain:
- 100 Radioactive waste water = 70 Purified Water + 20 Mineralized Water + 1 Vitrified Waste (with Nuclear power mod this is the same vitrified waste)
- Vitrified Waste Purification = 1 Vitrified Waste + 100 Perchloric Acid = 1 U-235 (made in the Ore Refinery)

Petrochem additions:
- New Acid:
- 100 Purified Water + 100 Hydrogen Chloride Gas + 1 Red Metal Catalyst = 100 Chloric Acid + 1 Metal Catalyst Carrier (made in the chemical plant)

- New Perchloric Acid synthesis:
- 100 Chloric Acid + 100 Oxygen Gas + 1 Blue Metal Catalyst = 100 Perchloric Acid + 100 Hydrogen Chloride Gas + 1 Metal Catalyst Carrier

- Depleted Uranium Synthesis:
1 Vitrified Waste + 100 Hydroxylamine = 1 U-238

- Hydroxylamine Synthesis:
100 Nitric Acid + 200 Hydrogen Gas + 1 Red Metal Catalyst = 150 Hydroxylamine + 150 Purified Water + 1 Metal Catalyst Carrier

- Catalytic Synthesis of Hydroxilamine:
100 Synthesis Gas + 100 Nitrogen Dioxide + 1 Yellow Metal Catalyst = 180 Hydroxylamine + 20 Purified Water + 1 Metal Catalyst Carrier

Those are my ideas for the new Uranium handling, If I could provide some thoughts I'd be very happy about it. Wish I knew how to code a mod in factorio so I could help you out.

[Light]

Just because a feature now exists, doesn't mean it has to be used.

Angel's Refining already does what the fluid miner now does. You must use chemicals and gasses to refine Angel's ores into the proper Bob's ores for manufacturing.

Adding fluid mining is just redundant to the system Angel already has in place. Vanilla players now get a small taste of what we deal with in our games, just using the miner instead of a refining plant. Since this is the case, there's no real reason to hurt ourselves over trying to use the feature just because it's new and "interesting".

If and when Angel decides that fluid mining has a place in the mods, it will surely be added and we'll critique it as always, but there's no real rush for it. Especially when most ideas will just throw off the balance in other areas and seldom do people consider that since they're just too excited for the feature to think it through.

It also bears repeating that uranium ore already exists in Angel's Refining and works fine as is.

Angel, any chance on an angels nuclear mod?
i think a progression of heavy/light water reactors, breeder reactors, and molten salt reactors might be a great addition if its in line with your interests. only 2 new ores would need to be generated (plutonium and thorium) and it would make nuclear management much more difficult and interesting.I guess more materials could be required such as the intermediary isotopes of breeders.

Already handled perfectly by Fatmice.
viewforum.php?f=64

All the things you wish to see can now be added thanks to improvements for modders in 0.15. Just like everything else, all they need is time to get the job done.

[Mobius1]

Adding fluid mining is just redundant to the system Angel already has in place. Vanilla players now get a small taste of what we deal with in our games, just using the miner instead of a refining plant. Since this is the case, there's no real reason to hurt ourselves over trying to use the feature just because it's new and "interesting".

Well, Angel started his mods with the refining one, taking regular raw ores, making you refine them properly before using them for the final plate product, that type of depth on mining is amazingly good, I love it, but if it can be deeper, more realistic, why not? I believe that was the line of thinking when he started to make the Metallurgy mods which adds a more "realistic" way of processing the metals adding a little more complexity to the game which is amazing. Now vanilla factorio enabled fluid mining that is often seen on calcitherite mines, bauxite mines and magnetite mines on the real world, they add certain compounds to soften the ore so the drill can penetrate the rock better taking less time to mine the ore (hence improving productivity) than it would take regularly by just trying to pierce through the hard rock.

Not saying he MUST add the feature, just saying it would not be a bad feature to his mods, it would be a great addition that would make the game more challenging and interesting. Sure ppl would complain when their brains start to melt, but its also motivational to beat the challenge!

[Demonk]

Hi.
Are there any plans for phased ore processing?
For Example
Sorting: Ore => (Metal1_Ore) + (Metal2_ore) + Refused(1)
floatation Refused(1) => (Metal3_Ore) + (Metal4_ore) + Refused(2)
chemical Refused(2) => (Metal5_Ore) + Refused(3)
thermal Refused(3) => (Metal6_Ore) + slag