old LTN discussion thread

[Odhrean]

Your mod is awesome and i use it very much.
I designed Requester/provider Stations which use combinators and are depended from the current Signals.

I read your announcement of 1.3.0 and think I must re-design all my stations when it is out... even worse: every station i built will stop working in my live factory...
Since i am heavily dependent from this change i think stop playing factorio still it is out (was a joke )

Can you say when we can roughly expect 1.3.0?

[Optera]

It's mostly done.
I'm holding back the release hoping signal migration will be added to the next Factorio release to migrate min delivery size to request threshold.

1.3.0 will work with any setup using "Stops output expected inventory".

[Optera]

Released 1.3.0. Changed up signals a bit.

Replaced use best effort, minimum delivery size and ignore minimum delivery size with more versatile request threshold and provide threshold.
Requester will only trigger deliveries when amount *-1 is above request threshold, same as with minimum delivery size before. Request threshold no longer affects providers.
Minimum delivery size signal is migrated to requester threshold.

Provider will only be used when they are above provide threshold.
The behaviour of Best Effort/Ignore Minimum Delivery Size can be achieved by setting provide threshold to 1.
Disabling providing from a station can easily be done by setting provide threshold above a stations storage capacity.

Requester have a new signal Disable Warnings, disabling messages like no station found supplying x for this requester.

Messages are only printed for their respective force where possible.
Some errors about invalid entities don't have any force information so they still are global.

Fluid deliveries always wait until empty at unloading stations as workaround for residue after unloading.
At some setups with 1 pump that will probably make trains time out.

Finally I removed the toggle to the old loading list output entirely.
Station logic using expected inventory after loading is always simpler than using loading list.

[iktah]

Just got this after updating =)

[steinio]

Released 1.3.0. Changed up signals a bit.

Replaced use best effort, minimum delivery size and ignore minimum delivery size with more versatile request threshold and provide threshold.
Requester will only trigger deliveries when amount *-1 is above request threshold, same as with minimum delivery size before. Request threshold no longer affects providers.
Minimum delivery size signal is migrated to requester threshold.

Provider will only be used when they are above provide threshold.
The behaviour of Best Effort/Ignore Minimum Delivery Size can be achieved by setting provide threshold to 1.
Disabling providing from a station can easily be done by setting provide threshold above a stations storage capacity.

Requester have a new signal Disable Warnings, disabling messages like no station found supplying x for this requester.

Messages are only printed for their respective force where possible.
Some errors about invalid entities don't have any force information so they still are global.

Fluid deliveries always wait until empty at unloading stations as workaround for residue after unloading.
At some setups with 1 pump that will probably make trains time out.

Finally I removed the toggle to the old loading list output entirely.
Station logic using expected inventory after loading is always simpler than using loading list.

Nice.

Does this change anything on this setups: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=36976&p=279803#p279796?

Greetings, steinio.

[Optera]

Just got this after updating =)

Thanks for the report.
Fixed in 1.3.1.

[Odhrean]

Released 1.3.0. Changed up signals a bit.
...
Finally I removed the toggle to the old loading list output entirely.
Station logic using expected inventory after loading is always simpler than using loading list.

Thank you very much.... now I must redesign all my Statons. I wanted to do it anyway

[masneoquil]

Hello Optera

First let me say thank you for this mod. It's great!!

With the latest version and the new Provider Threshold all deliveries are being made of 1001/1002 items. The requester threshold it is configures to for example 4500 but it keep making 1000 items trips.
Is this intended and I should setup a provider threshold on each provider station or is a bug?

Thanks so much

[Optera]

Hello Optera

First let me say thank you for this mod. It's great!!

With the latest version and the new Provider Threshold all deliveries are being made of 1001/1002 items. The requester threshold it is configures to for example 4500 but it keep making 1000 items trips.
Is this intended and I should setup a provider threshold on each provider station or is a bug?

Thanks so much

If a provider only has 1k it can't deliver 4.5k.

[masneoquil]

Hello Optera

First let me say thank you for this mod. It's great!!

With the latest version and the new Provider Threshold all deliveries are being made of 1001/1002 items. The requester threshold it is configures to for example 4500 but it keep making 1000 items trips.
Is this intended and I should setup a provider threshold on each provider station or is a bug?

Thanks so much

If a provider only has 1k it can't deliver 4.5k.

oh I know that.
But before LTN wasn't creating a line until there is enough items to meet the requester threshold, now it keeps making lines for 1000 item as soon as there are on the providers.
Maybe you changed it, and I'm ok with that.
I just wanted to know to change my setup accordingly

Edit: Just to make myself clear. The requester station has the threshold set at 4500, not in the mod options. The mod option has 1000 as per default.

[Optera]

But before LTN wasn't creating a line until there is enough items to meet the requester threshold, now it keeps making lines for 1000 item as soon as there are on the providers.
Maybe you changed it, and I'm ok with that.
I just wanted to know to change my setup accordingly

Edit: Just to make myself clear. The requester station has the threshold set at 4500, not in the mod options. The mod option has 1000 as per default.

Request threshold no longer affects providers.

I explicitly stated this was no longer the case with 1.3.0.

Each provider uses provider threshold now.

[masneoquil]

But before LTN wasn't creating a line until there is enough items to meet the requester threshold, now it keeps making lines for 1000 item as soon as there are on the providers.
Maybe you changed it, and I'm ok with that.
I just wanted to know to change my setup accordingly

Edit: Just to make myself clear. The requester station has the threshold set at 4500, not in the mod options. The mod option has 1000 as per default.

Request threshold no longer affects providers.

I explicitly stated this was no longer the case with 1.3.0.

Each provider uses provider threshold now.

Sorry Optera, my mistake.

Thanks Again!!

[Odhrean]

Each provider uses provider threshold now.

I think you must explain more what the new Signals are for.

I set a Station with Request Threshold 16k and a Provider with Provider Threshold 5k.

I expect that a delivery is only created when there are 16k in any Provider to deliver to this station, thats why i set the requerster threshold to 16k.

I want a Provider to provide the Items when there are more then 5k for any Station that is requesting 5k or more.

In LTN 1.3 the old min delivery size is migrated to requester threshold and i thought that this the same. But in 1.3 in fact the provider threshold is now the new min delivery size because
the requester threshold seems to be ignored.
So, for what is the requester threshold for....?

[Light]

Each provider uses provider threshold now.

I think you must explain more what the new Signals are for.

I set a Station with Request Threshold 16k and a Provider with Provider Threshold 5k.

I expect that a delivery is only created when there are 16k in any Provider to deliver to this station, thats why i set the requerster threshold to 16k.

I want a Provider to provide the Items when there are more then 5k for any Station that is requesting 5k or more.

In LTN 1.3 the old min delivery size is migrated to requester threshold and i thought that this the same. But in 1.3 in fact the provider threshold is now the new min delivery size because
the requester threshold seems to be ignored.
So, for what is the requester threshold for....?

From what I tested, the question on my mind is "what is the provider threshold for?"

The requester threshold seems to be the minimum delivery size, as no delivery is made until the negative number surpasses that signal. However, with or without a provider signal, the trains will still travel there to collect their provided items regardless of what you set it to, if you have it there at all.

---

One issue I'm really having with this update is that trains are set up with a schedule like this:
Coal > 2000
AND inactivity 2 seconds
OR inactivity 180 seconds

The issue is that "AND" means the 2000 is irrelevant, as the train will bleed the provider station dry. Nor have I found any way to change this with signals.
Rather than obtain 2k coal and leave, the train is maxed out to what it can carry, and the next set of deliveries are delayed due to the first train eating it all.

I'll assume it's a bug unless there's something new that I'm apparently missing here.

[steinio]

Fluid deliveries always wait until empty at unloading stations as workaround for residue after unloading.
At some setups with 1 pump that will probably make trains time out.

Hi,

this is very kind of you but i wired the pumps to the station output and the are only enabled if oil > 0.
So the trains are waiting forever because the pumps are disabled to early.
Can the station output this signal until waiting time is over or is it state of the art to not wire the pumps?

Greetings, steinio.

[Mobius1]

One issue I'm really having with this update is that trains are set up with a schedule like this:
Coal > 2000
AND inactivity 2 seconds
OR inactivity 180 seconds

The issue is that "AND" means the 2000 is irrelevant, as the train will bleed the provider station dry. Nor have I found any way to change this with signals.
Rather than obtain 2k coal and leave, the train is maxed out to what it can carry, and the next set of deliveries are delayed due to the first train eating it all.

I'll assume it's a bug unless there's something new that I'm apparently missing here.

Grab a wire from the train station to read the train content and subtract it from the work order, applying that remaining value as filter to your inserters. Whenever that "filter" reaches 0 a.k.a the full work order, your inserters will stop working and the train will leave with the desired ammount.

[Odhrean]

I am trying to understand the Provide/Request Thresholds and made a graphic...

LTN_Request_Provide_Threshold.png (41.99 KiB) Viewed 7451 times

[steinio]

Hi,

if a LTN stop is detroyed, in this case through a deleted chunk, the save can't be loaded anymore:

ltn bug.png (22.65 KiB) Viewed 7733 times

Greetings, steinio.

[Optera]

this is very kind of you but i wired the pumps to the station output and the are only enabled if oil > 0.
So the trains are waiting forever because the pumps are disabled to early.
Can the station output this signal until waiting time is over or is it state of the art to not wire the pumps?

With the way stop currently truncate float to int it's either using the empty condition and dumb pumps or risking trains very seldomly driving off with 0.x residue even with 3 pumps and 2 sec inactivity.

Please help make the devs aware about this unsatisfying situation so we get stops outputting rounded up fluid values.

if a LTN stop is detroyed, in this case through a deleted chunk, the save can't be loaded anymore:

Do you call on_entity_died for all entities in the chunk you delete? If not your way of destroying chunks is wrong.
If it's mined by players, bots or destroyed by shooting it it works fine.

I am trying to understand the Provide/Request Thresholds and made a simple graphic. Is this the way the Thresholds work?

LTN_Request_Provide.png

Mostly, if those are 3 different providers it will also use the 20k provider for the 16k request.

[thedoh]

I've upgraded to version 1.3.2 and seem to have a problem with unloading stations: I have a train with some iron ore which ought to be unloaded and the station output does not have the iron ore in its list of outputs. The only thing output, in fact, is the encoded train/locomotive positions. The delivery order existed before the upgrade. Did a setting or behaviour change that I missed?