Friday Facts #56 - A lot of stuff

[Plop and run]

Just wondering... for roboports, why not just draw a spanning tree (or a spanning tree + convex hull if bounds are THAT important) instead of triangulation?

[ssilk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_Tree_Protocol
Interesting.
But for me as player I would be confused, cause I cannot make a connection with the next roboport, but only all around through the whole network of roboports and then from "backwards" connected.

[Plop and run]

... what ? I was talking about spanning trees from graph theory, you can place your stuff wherever you want, it's just a visual representation that minimizes the number of lines drawn.

[Jimlad]

If you're having difficulty implementing gates, why not simply substitute them with forcefields? The mechanics of the implementation will be far easier, and you won't have to worry about inconsistencies such as when the gate animation is open but you still want it to act as a barrier to biters etc. There won't be any difference to the player, as the functionality ought to be identical to gates. Another possible advantage is that if you choose, you could have conveyers going through forcefields as well, whereas that won't be possible with gates. Plus - lots of possibilities for cool effects!

[krux02]

your triangulation doesn't look like it's a Delaunay triangulation. I think if you would implement that, it would improve the visualization even more. There is an incremental edge flip based triangulation algorithm for that, that would fit perfectly for this case, because of the incremental nature of adding roboports.

[Nova]

@Jimlad: Well, in my opinion, force fields as gates are slightly worse than normal gates. Not much, but I would prefer normal "hard" gates. Maybe both? Being able to upgrade them would be nice. An additional research would be nice.

[Drury]

If you're having difficulty implementing gates, why not simply substitute them with forcefields? The mechanics of the implementation will be far easier, and you won't have to worry about inconsistencies such as when the gate animation is open but you still want it to act as a barrier to biters etc. There won't be any difference to the player, as the functionality ought to be identical to gates. Another possible advantage is that if you choose, you could have conveyers going through forcefields as well, whereas that won't be possible with gates. Plus - lots of possibilities for cool effects!

I'd prefer to have hard gates to correspond with walls, but a laser fence tech would be awesome!

[-root]

Tiberium Sun anybody?

[Nova]

Yepp. One very nice feature of Tiberian Sun - now in Factorio!

[ssilk]

... what ? I was talking about spanning trees from graph theory

Off topic: A "Spanning tree" is in German two different things: Either the above mentioned "Spanning tree protocol", which isn't translated in German and the "Spannbaum" (could be translated to English like "Spanntree"). That is what you mean:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannbaum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanning_tree

[MF-]

by the way:
that thing has a neat czech name (using "wikipedia translation")
http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostra_grafu

[Drury]

YES

Spooky scary graph skeletons, perfect for halloween.

[xnmo]

Can't. Wait. For. TANK

Need to roll over some pesky biters and their icky abodes beneath my treads

[Align]

If we get mobile spitters, does this mean worms can be nerfed and not be such a pain in the butt to deal with? Or should I expect to rely on the tank for them?

[Marbles]

I think the tank will be a great help in killing the worms yes

[bobingabout]

When placing roboports at the far reachs of the range (for maximum coverage over maximum spread) I use the dotted connection lines to see, not only if I'm placing the roboport in the correct place, but if there is already a roboport to me N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W and NW. if I don't see all 8 lines, that means at least 1 is missing, and I need to head over there and place another roboport.

With the new Triangulation method, would it still link to ALL roboports that are not on screen?

if the answer is no... please make the linkage triangulation a toggleable variable in the options, rather than forced upon us all.

Another thing I noticed, one of the reasons I read for moving to the triangulation method was to reduce lag caused by drawing too many sprites at once... I find that, especially when you only have the 8 links to roboports off screen, drawing that orange and green logistic and construction field takes WAY more power than the link lines.

[Boogieman14]

Bob makes a good point. Perhaps it could be made so that when placing a new roboport, the triangulation doesn't occur and instead all lines are shown. Use the triangulation only when hovering over anything in the logistics network. (or make even this a configuration option, something like "Use triangulation" with choices "Always"|"Always except placing roboports"|"Never")

[ssilk]

Hm. I would like to see the 8 Roboport positions (N, NE, E, SE ...), which touch the existing.

AND (!) their continuations. I mean: I want to occupy a big area. Fast. But I need to wait for placing the current Roboport, until I can place the next. I want to speed this up a lot: place all roboports at the right points, cable them and some minutes later they are all set up. Instead of half an hour. Therefore I need to see the right places for my roboports.

Idea: when I shift-right click on a entity (copy), and want to place it, the game displays me the most useful places. In this case the most far places in the 8 directions.

Oh and I think the roboports should be able to connect a power cable to another Roboport (a bit kind of special connection). No need to place extra poles, I think this will speed the game up a lot.

Edit: and the ability to place ghost buildings on wood (or other buildings): when using a special key combi (Ctrl, shift for example) the ghost or blueprint will first destruct everything on ground and then build. And a slightly bigger area for destruction then for construction, cause for roboports so far at the ranges you need currently to cut/shoot the wall by hand, before you can place it.

[xnmo]

Those are all great suggestions ssilk, would certainly improve logistic network usability a ton.

[kovarex]

The triangulation is only applied to existing roboports. When building new roboport, you see all connections, we play the game as well, so we know what would be annoying