Friday Facts #419 - Display Panel & Inserter pickup fixes

[Rinin]

I could suggest a bit more common-user friendly solution that allows placeholders.

Just make it possible to output either text or value from the network. And add the ability to merge messages instead of exiting on the first true condition. So each condition could use one of three options.

• append next
• newline and append next
• exit

It would overload interface a bit, but it'll solve the issue and make it accessible to a wider audience.

Basically you could design it more like printf instead of existing switch-case design. It'll also allow to solve the problem that is already in FFF, it'll be possible to see that both the iron and plastic are low.

[dragon_gawain]

Lastly, you didn't show how the color signals are displayed, but it would be great to have the entire screen being colored instead of just showing the signal icon. This could be extended to the letter / number signals as well, displaying them as written on the screen, like the +/<> etc. are shown on combinators

They show both the green check signal, and the ghost icon (which while not technically a signal, might as well be :shrug:).
But focusing on the check mark, it did go pretty much right to the edge of the screen. So, I'd assume that the other signals would act similarly and go pretty much right to the edge. There might be a bit of a black border, but it should still be pretty covering.

That being said, I like the idea of having the color signals change the color of the screen instead of just displaying the color signal symbol for a different reason (that's also not yet a thing). In much the same way as you can use color signals for lamps, what you said gave me the idea for dual signals - use the color signal just to change the background color of the display, then a second signal for whatever item/signal/whatever you want on the screen. Basically to have the color signals be a different 'channel' as far as the display is concerned.

[gGeorg]

These are my most negative changes:
1. Quality
2. Fluid
3. Inserter

These are my most negative changes:
1. Fluid
2. Quality
3. Inserter

Order is different but the list is the same. My top negative is Fluid without flow.

[Locane]

I love the inserter changes, and the new belt speeds are going to be really fun.

They look like kind of a messy blur, though - fast motion is really tough to see in 60hz.

[Samwhell]

I LOVE these additions! A display was always needed and slap-dash solution with constant combinators.

And the inserter-too-slow-for-the-belts issue was usually just a cute outcome than a design mechanic outcome. Though I would ask: is that "snapping buff" the burner inserters gain also given to inserters that pull from underground belts as well? Do I sense a new underground belt meta incoming?

This is what you get when the devs actually play their own game. Time well spent in my estimation. Thanks Wube Team.

[wizcreations]

Can the displays show a solid color like lamps?

[Tertius]

These are my most negative changes:
1. Quality
2. Fluid
3. Inserter

These are my most negative changes:
1. Fluid
2. Quality
3. Inserter

Order is different but the list is the same. My top negative is Fluid without flow.

It's extremely hard to not comment this. Really hard, and I failed. I'm totally at a loss. I don't understand the reasoning. I probably read all your corresponding posts, but I'm not able to understand. The most non-understandable thing is the inserter fix. That's a rather minor change, fixing a small but annoying annoyance.

I don't understand why for example pushing the cliff explosives further down the tech tree isn't an issue for you. For me, that thing is vastly changing my game experience, because it forces different base building for a longer amount of time, so I cannot use blueprints while there aren't yet cliff explosives. My mind works in terms of blueprints, not in terms of single buildings.

[Tooster]

It would be nice to see a signal value next to a text, even more, give support to a rich text for displaying icons anywhere.

When it comes to combinators, I know that the red/green channels are there since forever, but I still think it is a shame we don't have a way for a combinator to work on a single network only. The red/green split in combinators is confusing and the signals like "red input", "green input" and "red/green input" instead of "any" would have been more intuitive and easier. Not to mention the currently numerous of hoops you have to make to just simply compare or perform operations between red/green channels in the combinators.

[GregoriusT]

These are my most negative changes:
1. Quality
2. Fluid
3. Inserter

These are my most negative changes:
1. Fluid
2. Quality
3. Inserter

Order is different but the list is the same. My top negative is Fluid without flow.

Here are my current most negative things about 2.0:

1. Movement Latency hiding being dropped while the SHOOT button is pressed, and ONLY while the SHOOT button is pressed, is considered a "wont fix" according to a comment on a previous FFF.
Literally all combat options EXCEPT the SHOOT Button will hide your Movement Latency, this is ridiculous and discriminating against anyone who has Friends across an Ocean! I had to deal with that bullshit latency hider drop again a few hours ago, so it is fresh on my mind...

2. The specific mathematical formula at which diminishing beacon returns are calculated at , makes it harder to find good ratios. I would prefer stair stepping or linear diminishing returns for ease of maths for the end user.

3. ALT Mode being used as "lets show all the walls of text!"-Mode, even though ALT-Mode is there so you can see Recipes in Assemblers, and Chest/Tank contents. Please have a dedicated "wall of text"-Mode or WOT-Mode for short.

[Panzerknacker]

@Twinsen:

Have you considered that inserters start missing items passing by on belts when they are low on power? This is actually a fail mechanic where the factory will start working in a strange and unpredictable manner or even grind to a total halt in some circumstances while being underpowered. By modifying the inserter extension speed I am almost sure that you are also greatly reducing the risk of this failure mode.

Overall I don't think the change is good for the game. Inserters are, like fluids were, also a simulation mechanic in the game. The fact that they are missing items in certain situations is only a result of that simulation, that's why there are faster versions out there. You are actually disturbing the balance between the different variants more than you think by implementing this.

[Gummiente27]

@Twinsen:

Have you considered that inserters start missing items passing by on belts when they are low on power? This is actually a fail mechanic where the factory will start working in a strange and unpredictable manner or even grind to a total halt in some circumstances while being underpowered. By modifying the inserter extension speed I am almost sure that you are also greatly reducing the risk of this failure mode.

Overall I don't think the change is good for the game. Inserters are, like fluids were, also a simulation mechanic in the game. The fact that they are missing items in certain situations is only a result of that simulation, that's why there are faster versions out there. You are actually disturbing the balance between the different variants more than you think by implementing this.

You have no clue about the actual difference with inserters low on power (like everyone except Wube).

[Panzerknacker]

You have no clue about the actual difference with inserters low on power (like everyone except Wube).

You have no clue about me having a clue.

[Quarnozian]

For the inserter missing items problem... I had this problem years ago with burner inserters. Here's the thought I had back then...

I think the inserter movement speed is fine as-is, but they should detect upcoming items on the previous belt segment so they have time to line-up to grab the items.

[Kyralessa]

For the inserter missing items problem... I had this problem years ago with burner inserters. Here's the thought I had back then...

I think the inserter movement speed is fine as-is, but they should detect upcoming items on the previous belt segment so they have time to line-up to grab the items.

The point of the FFF was, they do already. But when they go to actually grab the item, the rotation is fast enough, but the extension is too slow, so they miss the items.

The only reason they work with a full blue belt is that it doesn't matter how long the extension takes if the item isn't moving.

[Terrahertz]

@Twinsen:

Have you considered that inserters start missing items passing by on belts when they are low on power? This is actually a fail mechanic where the factory will start working in a strange and unpredictable manner or even grind to a total halt in some circumstances while being underpowered. By modifying the inserter extension speed I am almost sure that you are also greatly reducing the risk of this failure mode.

Overall I don't think the change is good for the game. Inserters are, like fluids were, also a simulation mechanic in the game. The fact that they are missing items in certain situations is only a result of that simulation, that's why there are faster versions out there. You are actually disturbing the balance between the different variants more than you think by implementing this.

Nobody is forcing you to update to 2.0. If you want to stay with 1.1 just do it!
It's not hard: On Steam you just need to right click on the game, select "Properties" and go to Betas, then select the lastest 1.1 release and your done.
No new fluid mechanics, no change to inserter behavior. No other updates, bugfixes and no expansion either, yes, but seems like your not a big fan of those things anyway.

[legendddhgf]

What about alarms? Why not merge their functionality with the display panels since display panels have conditionals already to essentially choose which icon/message to display (just add alarm settings for each condition icon/description).

[Potipecan]

What benefit do legendary quality Display Panels provide?

Disney+ subscription.

Not worth it then.

[morse]

Also, could the icons on displays have some visual distortions on them? It's a CRT display after all. Right now all these icons look like they are slapped on top (which they are, of course, but they shouldn't look like they are).

A bit of interlacing and geometric distortions in the corners shouldn't affect the readability, but the icons will look like they are indeed shown on displays and not just hover over them in UI.

[T-A-R]

I do not doubt the functionally of the display, but the model of the unprotected display tube makes me wonder: While it emphasizes the roundness of the CRT, so does it ephasize the fragilty.
In space/factory environment it could really benefit protection from a ruggedized design with a bezel and casing.

[EnerJi]

What's with the displays being so tiny? Why can't I have a giant display, a stadium-sized display? Yes, the largest ever CRT (according to Wikipedia) is only 43", but maybe it could be made with the ultra low resolution using individual bulbs which in my memory seems to have been typical of giant displays before the LCD display era?