Throttling Nuclear Reactors; control rods research?

[Jarin]

It seems odd to me that there's no throttling of nuclear power, considering that the process is fairly simple, and that other power sources don't have issues with overconsumption. Could we get some sort of control rods tech maybe, to allow adjustment of fuel consumption? Even if the insertion percentage had to be manually adjusted, or done with circuit network signals, that'd be an improvement.

[MeduSalem]

My opinion after playing for a week with the Nuclear Reactors is following:

The Heatpipes/Heat Exchangers/Steam Turbines etc are well done (with the Heatpipes being a little bit quirky, but that may be a bug as mentioned here).


But when it comes to the reactors I think that the way it is now is a little bit lack luster on several parts:

1. Throttling with Control Rods/Absorbers is missing, so you effectively waste fuel even if you don't draw any power and controlling that is ugly because the game doesn't provide the necessary information (like reactor contents) to make decisions.
2. The neighbour bonus system is way too static and boring as hell because it drives all players to use the same 2*2, 2*3, 2*4, 2*5, ..., 2*n, ... designs because nothing else besides such a rectangle is really possible.

So on that matter I think that the reactor concept needs to be overhauled quite a bit to make it more interesting and encourage more different reactor layouts. I have an idea on how the system could be changed to fix both issues while at the same time making it more interesting and realistic:

1. Each reactor should start creating a neutron cloud (similar to the pollution cloud) with the highest density in the center and which slowly grows/expands outward over time... Each reactor adds to that cloud. The rate of which each reactor adds to the cloud increases based on how dense the cloud already is at the spot where the reactor is located. So basically the reactors within the cloud start to boost one another depending on their distance... Since the entire system grows dynamically it could go back and forth, with the chain reactions increasing at an exponential rate (with or without an upper cap).
2. Due to the exponentially increasing reaction rate within the reactors the fuel cells would also be consumed at the same exponential rate.
3. So not to waste the Fuel Cells the Control rods come into play and I see two methods:
   • They are integrated within the Reactors and may be controlled via circuit network
   • The aborbers become an additional item that may be placed strategically between reactors and can be hooked up to the circuit network and when activated they actively start blocking the neutron flow between the reactors, starting to throttle the reaction.
4. In both cases the neutron cloud would start to shrink/become less dense again, so the reaction slows down and less fuel is consumed.

The important part about the above is that the reactors don't need to touch one another anymore to gain the boost... It's enough if they are within the cloud of another reactor to start boosting each other. So any layout is possible and it becomes a matter of balancing the neutron cloud.

[steinio]

I would suggest to make it possible to only feed one outer reactor which shares the fuel with all connected ones. This makes a bigger setup possible and underline the neighborhood bonus.

Greetings, steinio.

[AcolyteOfRocket]

Compared to things like coal boilers nuclear rectors do not vary their output over time very well, but I am not sure why. I think the devs wanted to make this baseload style of power part of the game, although its not going to sit well when solar is so OP as it is in the game at the moment.

I am running a solar with nuclear backup for part of my factory and I too am a bit peeved by the fuel losses that take place when there is no load on the reactor, but since I am swimming in nuclear fuel its not a problem.

I think they do need some tweaking but I for one am happy that they have some notion of giving nuclear interesting properties rather than just another tech that gets sidelined when the mega solar farm gets deployed.

[eX_ploit]

You can already throttle nuclear fuel consumption by using fluid tanks to store steam, and circuit networks to only load fuel when steam runs low. Here's a save with an example reactor design.

[AcolyteOfRocket]

Never did really get into soring steam/hot water in those fluid tanks, seemed a bit naff to me.

Buit if its going to stay in the game, then I guess I'd better get reading up ...

[Braidcutter]

I like the idea of fuel getting passed around between reactors allowing for more designs. Can't figure how it would work. Maybe neighbors could share common input/output stockpiles.

Also would be easier if reactors would give up their reactor fuels like the old boilers used to for fuel. This way you could use a filter inserter to empty their stockpiles on command.

Heat pipes should loose 1KW each this would mean long chains would be less efficient. Technically this would mean the heat pipes would give off as much heat as an electric space heater for each square meter, not unreasonable considering it is attached to a nuke plant. Maybe it should be 5, or 50.

Also would be cool if all neighboring reactors computed their output as a single unit, like they all shared the same thermal "box". Hopefully that would prevent those finicky thermal fluctuations you can get sometimes.

Also would be nice the reactors would just slag if they hit max temp. And immediately be replaced with a custom useless building that takes alot of work to deconstruct.

[mora99]

The main reason for throttling a nuclear plant is load following mode, to maintain the grid at a stable frequency, and preferably at a planned schedule, since they are slow to adjust, you cant just get 20% extra for a minute because biters attack, so if the reactor in factorio did load following, we would need a lot of accumulators to compensate.

Not all plants can change power levels rapidly though and those who can do it slowly, with 2-5% per minute being steep changes, so its not that unrealistic to imagine the one in factorio is a older design that has to run at 100%.

[Braidcutter]

The main reason for throttling a nuclear plant is load following mode, to maintain the grid at a stable frequency, and preferably at a planned schedule, since they are slow to adjust, you cant just get 20% extra for a minute because biters attack, so if the reactor in factorio did load following, we would need a lot of accumulators to compensate.

Not all plants can change power levels rapidly though and those who can do it slowly, with 2-5% per minute being steep changes, so its not that unrealistic to imagine the one in factorio is a older design that has to run at 100%.

From what I've seen typical nuclear plants take hours to about half a day to get up to maximum thermal output, and depending on design, 3-10 days to stop producing heat(dangerous levels of) once shutdown. Some fancy reactors in use today can run at %60-%100 but they still take hours to adjust to a new throttle setting.

The real reason nuke plants tend to run long and hard is thermal expansion. If the various parts are allowed to cool and heat up too much they wear out. Meaning the plant needs to "turn around" before going hot again. For fossil fuel a certain level of risk in this regard is tolerated, but not for nuclear. Nuke plants need to check every last gasket and wing nut before coming online again.

[Jarin]

You can already throttle nuclear fuel consumption by using fluid tanks to store steam, and circuit networks to only load fuel when steam runs low. Here's a save with an example reactor design.

I don't see "steam" as an option to filter on with my circuit network. It's not listed in fluids or anywhere else I can see.

[Nemoricus]

You can already throttle nuclear fuel consumption by using fluid tanks to store steam, and circuit networks to only load fuel when steam runs low. Here's a save with an example reactor design.

I don't see "steam" as an option to filter on with my circuit network. It's not listed in fluids or anywhere else I can see.

Steam is currently just water at high temperature. it is not a separate fluid.

[Jarin]

You can already throttle nuclear fuel consumption by using fluid tanks to store steam, and circuit networks to only load fuel when steam runs low. Here's a save with an example reactor design.

I don't see "steam" as an option to filter on with my circuit network. It's not listed in fluids or anywhere else I can see.

Steam is currently just water at high temperature. it is not a separate fluid.

Ahh, since it had a different icon and name in game, I didn't think to try that. Thanks.