What about a subscription model for Factorio starting with 0.18?

[Koub]

The hard facts are:
„If you can’t pay the rent you have to move out.“
This counts no matter if you sell toilet-paper, cars, cookies, jewelry or computer games.
Anyone requesting or expecting free updates to a once bought product in infinite is a childish dreamer as this doesn't work in the real business. (Venezuela tried and failed miserable even with the providing of toilet paper)
Anyone arguing for such a „after I bought the stuff once then please fill my plate infinite for free - business model“ is the enemy of any company in a capitalistic market as it means voting for bankruptcy.
At the end, even BMW cars would (by not charging hefty for servicing the cars regularly) ran out of funds - especially in an already highly saturated market segment - and finally seize to exist.
My bet is, that Wube will either change course or soon not being able anymore to get enough fresh cash (depending on a cash flow only by ongoing new sales) and will have to stop servicing Factorio.

And thats not what I wish for.

This is true if and only if Wube decides to keep on developing Factorio even once the game is out and finished, which I hope will not be the case. I could be OK in principle for an expansion or two. You know not the typical cosmetic DLC + 2 new items for 20 bucks, but a real expansion that adds content, new mechanisms, ... And when I say "I could", I mean I'm not pro or con yet because I haven't given enough thought to it to make myself an opinion.

I hope that at some time Wube will switch to another project, and declare Factorio done for good, with no further development planned. Subsciptions are made to milk people again and again and again, with the primary goal being to make the most money at the smallest cost possible, and I think this is not Wube's philosophy. The way I see Wube is "let's make the best product we can, and get the price it deserves".

Apart from MMOs, I can't imagine a viable mid-long term option for subscription based games. Hell, most subscription based MMOs prefer to switch to free to play with cash shop because the economic model is more profitable (which is sad if you ask me).

[brunzenstein]

I hope that at some time Wube will switch to another project, and declare Factorio done for good, with no further development planned. Subsciptions are made to milk people again and again and again, with the primary goal being to make the most money at the smallest cost possible, and I think this is not Wube's philosophy. The way I see Wube is "let's make the best product we can, and get the price it deserves".

Apart from MMOs, I can't imagine a viable mid-long term option for subscription based games. Hell, most subscription based MMOs prefer to switch to free to play with cash shop because the economic model is more profitable (which is sad if you ask me).

True enough -
I duly hope that Wube will build on basis of the vast experience they got by developing Factorio (basically a Minecraft on speed) something really new.
The upcoming contender is right on Factorios heels anyhow with a basically "graphically vastly enhanced Factorio in disguise "Satisfactory" - so market becomes saturated from all sides.
So the future could hold more and completely new nice in the bag for gamers- looking forward to it.

[Zavian]

„If you can’t pay the rent you have to move out.“
This counts no matter if you sell toilet-paper, cars, cookies, jewelry or computer games.

Whilst you do need money to pay the rent, trying to sell a product that nobody wants isn't a successful business model.

I too hope that Wube can build a new game, once they decide that Factorio is done. (Expansions that add interesting new mechanics would be welcome, but eventually it is time to call a game finished, and move onto a new product).

[brunzenstein]

„If you can’t pay the rent you have to move out.“
This counts no matter if you sell toilet-paper, cars, cookies, jewelry or computer games.

Whilst you do need money to pay the rent, trying to sell a product that nobody wants isn't a successful business model.

I too hope that Wube can build a new game, once they decide that Factorio is done. (Expansions that add interesting new mechanics would be welcome, but eventually it is time to call a game finished, and move onto a new product).

Agree - but the problem is not that people don't want the product itself. They love it dearly.
But they do not want to pay for it. Or at leat as little as possible. Some even prefer stolen steam accounts e.g.
And if they pay, many demand a lifelong free of charge servicing till end of the days.
That doesn't provide for a profitable business model to start with.
And if a business is not profitable ist goes the "The Maduro diet" (google) way

[Klonan]

Subscriptions cause a whole lot of potential headache,
Its nice and simple now, you buy the game, you play the game

[featherwinglove]

I duly hope that Wube will build on basis of the vast experience they got by developing Factorio (basically a Minecraft on speed) something really new.

I must respectfully submit that you're not very good at modding Minecraft. It's easy to make Minecraft automated industry more complex than vanilla Factorio,

The upcoming contender is right on Factorios heels anyhow with a basically "graphically vastly enhanced Factorio in disguise "Satisfactory" - so market becomes saturated from all sides.
So the future could hold more and completely new nice in the bag for gamers- looking forward to it.

There isn't just one. Factorio isn't just my game, it's my kind of game, and so um... there are at least five competitors. And also in my kinda fuzzy (in the sense of fuzzy logic and overlap) understanding of game genres, edge cases I would consider to be in Factorio's genre are Outpost 2 (go to outpost2.net - it is the old Divided Destiny from the 1990s, now available gratis), Don't Starve, SimCity, Prison Architect, Infinifactory, and Minecraft. And Subnautica (realized that's how to populate that end of the compass rose during a throneroom break - I was wondering how to, the shooter/vehicle game where character and equipment upgrades require an industrial back end, but the examples I thought of first, Fallout 76, Metal Gear Survive, and No Man's Sky, are unmitigated garbage, and then I heard a splash and it was, "Oh yeah, Subnautica." Sorry if that's too detailed ) The idle side of the Factorio-genre compass rose is truly flooded - if it were an engine, you might have to take the cylinder head off, it's that badly flooded.

Subscriptions cause a whole lot of potential headache,
Its nice and simple now, you buy the game, you play the game

I don't think it's what you were getting at, but this comment makes me think of the potential issues of a subscription/mtx game payment processing back end, which could soon become impossible if the incredible Patreon/PayPal/Gabstercard phenomenon spreads.

I thought of a possible compromise, however: Accept donations. Just being clear that there are no perks associated with them, but like, "Yeah guys, if you want to give us more money, go ahead. You don't have to though; actually just click here to buy more game keys instead. Give them to your favorite Youtubers, Twitchpeeps, Tumblrers, whatever" - I think it would be absolutely hilarious if thus rose the reign of Factorio game key trading to replace Patreon

[Dixi]

Subscription like $15/month is the best model for MMORPG. And it's the only place where is fits perfectly.

Factorio is a normal "box kind" single/several players multiplayer game. And price per box is good here. I paid once - I play forever. Expansions/DLC is another story, but since the game has not been released yet, this question can be delayed for a while.

[brunzenstein]

Subscription like $15/month is the best model for MMORPG. And it's the only place where is fits perfectly.

Play Factorio for less then a Hamburger - should be the PR

Charging a little bit more then $ 2 a month (about $30 for a yearly subscription) would not only be sufficient to keep further development smoothly running for a long time by the same time enlarges the community base significant as it would broaden the customer base enormous by making the entry to Factorio a brutal steal.
(By the way - all that without touching the existing price)

[Zavian]

Charging a little bit more then $ 2 a month (about $30 for a yearly subscription) would not only be sufficient to keep further development smoothly

You keep making the same unjustified assumptions and ignoring the problems that have been pointed out with this idea.

1. That the factorio developers actually wish to keep developing the game after 1.0.
2. That they actually have ideas for new content that are worth adding to the game.
3. That you can convince players to pay a subscription when that breaks player expectations for single player games.

Lots of players play a game for a few months or so, then move on and play something else for a while. Most of those players will baulk at paying an ongoing subscription. Charging a monthly subscription for a single player game breaks player expectations, and has a very real possibility of being such a turn-off that it significantly reduces sales of the game, which will actually reduce revenue.

Now if Wube does want to keep working on Factorio, and does have ideas for worthwhile new content to add, then they can develop and sell that content as an expansion/DLC. That won't break player expectations, won't alienate potential new purchasers, will potentially be appealing to players who been taking a break from factorio and who have bee playing other games for a while. All the benefits of your suggestion, without any of the negatives.

I've pointed out these issues before, yet you keep coming back with the same suggestion, without actually addressing any of these issues.

[brunzenstein]

Charging a little bit more then $ 2 a month (about $30 for a yearly subscription) would not only be sufficient to keep further development smoothly

You keep making the same unjustified assumptions and ignoring the problems that have been pointed out with this idea.

1. That the factorio developers actually wish to keep developing the game after 1.0.

I agree with you on that - I doubt they will develop Factorio further

2. That they actually have ideas for new content that are worth adding to the game.

The reason for you correctly quoted in litera 1.
Anyhow - to charge for providing goods and service (no matter how new or old) this is the core way how capitalism works in first place.

3. That you can convince players to pay a subscription when that breaks player expectations for single player games.

No - the personal expectation for a single player is (mostly to get a free dish and let others have the bills as well do the washing) of side interest as it should be the same like for a leased car. In short: should be fair for seller and customer
Pay as you go with a 12 month free ride for a given sum.
I can't see why this proper arrangement (actually does work for Adobe, X-press, AMEXCO to ren-a-car) could / would not work for Factorio

[featherwinglove]

Play Factorio for less then a Hamburger - should be the PR

We've lost the vegan crowd. Fail.

[SirLANsalot]

Simple Answer: No

Long Answer: HELL FUCK NO!

Factorio is running the "business" model, if you want to call it that, of how games actually are. The ones that are NOT online games that is. Those AAA titles ect that you buy once and can play forever. Yet those games are making millions of dollars with dev teams that only Wube could EVER dream of having. So what about them? How do you think the "big" gaming companies got that way? Subscription based systems are FOR ONLINE ONLY style games, Factorio is not that game.

Factorio being always $20 has been a solid model for them, its never on sale so you can never pick it up cheaper somewhere else, its always $20 (conversions not withstanding). What also helps is the dev team here is very small, this does keep costs WAY down. Also being in The Czech Republic, whos currency (CZK) is quite weak compared to the rest of the world ($1 USD is currently worth $22.5 CZK) is another way of keeping things "cheap" with office space (depending on the economy over there, inflation ect). It does seem to be a premiere place to develop a game for fairly cheap startup and running costs, as there are now several indie studios developing out of Prague.

So your original worry about Wube "running out of money" after the game is "done" is un-founded, as Factorio is STILL selling well for a small title. Not to mention they always get a good boost in sales every time they are in the running for the Steam Awards, as its literally free advertising.....well, its not like they advertise the game anyways. I would surmise that Wube has quite a good chunk of change in their coffers to run the company for many many years to come. Even if they didn't I am sure the community here would all be willing to toss more money at a company that has made such a wonderful game. There are a LOT of threads in this forum of players wishing they could of given more money to Wube for such a great game. Many of them have just settled for buying the game many times over for other, random, players who express interest in the game. That is how dedicated this playerbase is to this game, Wube is going nowhere, not if the players have any say in the matter LOL.

[urza99814]

I don't think there's any good way to implement this idea technically...

As others have said, online play exists, but it's not necessarily the focus of the game. And it's not an MMO where you can just lock people out of the server if they don't pay. Likewise, you don't need the constant income to maintain such servers.

And I -- and probably many other players -- would consider it EXTREMELY obnoxious if the game added some DRM which required a network connection to validate a subscription even if you aren't playing online. Even if I personally didn't have to pay (since I already purchased), the day they added such a feature would be the last day I ever played Factorio. That kind of anti-feature is utterly inexcusable. Not everybody has unlimited and omni-present internet access.

But I realize you haven't quite suggested that, you suggested paying for updates. But updates only come every few months. Once or twice a year. And they're not always huge changes. So why would I pay every month if I only need a valid membership for ten minutes per year? You might as well just sell each individual update as DLC, because that's how people would treat it anyway. Subscribe, download, cancel.

If they do intend to keep updating and expanding Factorio forever, then DLC isn't a terrible way to do it, as they do need to get paid somehow... But I've always been under the impression that their plan is to release the game and then move on to the next project. And if that's the plan then a subscription model would make no sense at all.

[brunzenstein]

My idea is you pay for the subscription only if you want to enjoy the regular updates.
Without these you can play the game into eternity “for free” - actually for the price you pay for the game on the day “it is”.

[Oktokolo]

My idea is you pay for the subscription only if you want to enjoy the regular updates.
Without these you can play the game into eternity “for free” - actually for the price you pay for the game on the day “it is”.

Mod authors will keep getting bug reports for all game versions they ever made their mod available on. A lot more mods would never get updated for the latest game version.
People would have to keep different versions of the game to be able to play with people who payed for the updates and that who didn't. The multiplayer community would effective be split by the last game version, they paid for.

I don't see player base fragmentation as a worthy goal.

[Jap2.0]

My idea is you pay for the subscription only if you want to enjoy the regular updates.
Without these you can play the game into eternity “for free” - actually for the price you pay for the game on the day “it is”.

I see no feasible way to require a constant subscription to get updates only every several months, or without adding some really weird first-party updating to Steam.

[Klonan]

Another problem with subscription, is that we will feel compelled to keep adding things to the game to justify it to our subscribers,
Which will end up with feature creep, scope creep, and more bugs

I would rather we design a full game, finish it, and then leave it as a complete piece of work, which doesn't need any more fiddling.

[brunzenstein]

Another problem with subscription, is that we will feel compelled to keep adding things to the game to justify it to our subscribers,
Which will end up with feature creep, scope creep, and more bugs

I would rather we design a full game, finish it, and then leave it as a complete piece of work, which doesn't need any more fiddling.

So be it

[Maddhawk]

The hard facts are:
„If you can’t pay the rent you have to move out.“
This counts no matter if you sell toilet-paper, cars, cookies, jewelry or computer games.
Anyone requesting or expecting free updates to a once bought product in infinite is a childish dreamer as this doesn't work in the real business. (Venezuela tried and failed miserable even with the providing of toilet paper)
Anyone arguing for such a „after I bought the stuff once then please fill my plate infinite for free - business model“ is the enemy of any company in a capitalistic market as it means voting for bankruptcy.
At the end, even BMW cars would (by not charging hefty for servicing the cars regularly) ran out of funds - especially in an already highly saturated market segment - and finally seize to exist.
My bet is, that Wube will either change course or soon not being able anymore to get enough fresh cash (depending on a cash flow only by ongoing new sales) and will have to stop servicing Factorio.

And thats not what I wish for.

This is true if and only if Wube decides to keep on developing Factorio even once the game is out and finished, which I hope will not be the case. I could be OK in principle for an expansion or two. You know not the typical cosmetic DLC + 2 new items for 20 bucks, but a real expansion that adds content, new mechanisms, ... And when I say "I could", I mean I'm not pro or con yet because I haven't given enough thought to it to make myself an opinion.

I hope that at some time Wube will switch to another project, and declare Factorio done for good, with no further development planned. Subsciptions are made to milk people again and again and again, with the primary goal being to make the most money at the smallest cost possible, and I think this is not Wube's philosophy. The way I see Wube is "let's make the best product we can, and get the price it deserves".

Apart from MMOs, I can't imagine a viable mid-long term option for subscription based games. Hell, most subscription based MMOs prefer to switch to free to play with cash shop because the economic model is more profitable (which is sad if you ask me).

I'm with Koub here. I paid for the base game. The game is a complete program that does not require any sort of internet connection to keep running. It has no DRM that I can see or know of. It is moddable and can be played solo or multiplayer. It is a game in the classic sense before greed began to consume so many major publishers and studios. It is fun. It is creative. It tells a story with infinite variety in a common theme.

A subscription model is something you do for an online only service. It is something that you cannot otherwise do on your own in your own home. You subscribe to MMOs because of their online only multiplayer only setup. You subscribe for gym membership when you can't afford to buy gym equipment of your own. You subscribe to magazines, TV, satellite radio, periodicals, professional journals, and other creative services that offer periodic regularly recurring new offerings of content. You subscribe to such things because you want to be kept updated on the newest things from such services without having to go out and manually check to see if there is anything new and paying a premium for a one time offering.

Any game that has a single player component should never use a subscription model. The model is just plain wrong for the type of game being made. You can find many talks regarding this from GDC (Game Developers Conference) on Youtube. You can see the backlash many companies have faced over the last decade from using the wrong business model with the wrong game model. You can also see what happens when a developer has the right business model for their game model but fail to understand the responsibilities to their customers such a model entails.

Another problem with subscription, is that we will feel compelled to keep adding things to the game to justify it to our subscribers,
Which will end up with feature creep, scope creep, and more bugs

I would rather we design a full game, finish it, and then leave it as a complete piece of work, which doesn't need any more fiddling.

Klonan understands this. Short and simple.

[brunzenstein]

Another problem with subscription, is that we will feel compelled to keep adding things to the game to justify it to our subscribers,
Which will end up with feature creep, scope creep, and more bugs

I would rather we design a full game, finish it, and then leave it as a complete piece of work, which doesn't need any more fiddling.

Klonan understands this. Short and simple.

If so, then it's perfectly clear that Factorio 1.0 (after being published) will stand, after some bugfixes, as excellent game alone as it is and then (WUBE having only this one egg in the basket) slowly go the path of the Studebaker.

Either WUBE is already working on a new project or seize to exist - enough experience they have now after developing such a wonderful game.
2019 will be invigorating for WUBE and its customers.