Bob's Mod Graphics Update Discussion

[bobingabout]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99qfguppf46jz ... n.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsjrmfp39psey ... n.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdvylcz3ok2wx ... n.png?dl=0

These are the 3 main ones I used, they're from one of the final fantasy games.

note: Factorio's iron plate is still stolen stright from final fantasy.

[Aonova]

Oh haha, TIL. Thanks

[Aonova]

Graphics Update: MCI - Chemical Processing 1

chemical-tech.png (27.27 KiB) Viewed 6626 times

preview

preview.png (42.65 KiB) Viewed 6626 times

Source Icons Link
As always, bm-gfxpatch updated with new icons

[bobingabout]

I'm not sure I want all the chemical icons to look like the same pile of dust in different colours. One of the reasons why I chose different shaped piles in the first place was to help identify some of them, since there's so many powders that look the same colour. Also, Carbon is supposed to look like a solid lump, not a powder.
And the bottle is actually a factorio icon... from previous versions.

Other than that it's looking good. Perhaps the black powder can be for a different chemical powder?

[Aonova]

I'm not sure I want all the chemical icons to look like the same pile of dust in different colours. One of the reasons why I chose different shaped piles in the first place was to help identify some of them, since there's so many powders that look the same colour.

I was thinking that at first, but as a design policy I didnt want visual randomness. So a strict "powder" graphic means the player can easily recall the general class of item. (I also plan to standardize the metal plates the same way, btw, between 3 graphics: base, high-tier, and alloy). Accordingly, everything will follow the same rules for colorization thus players only have to remember certain basic colors for certain basic elements and the item color will tell exactly what it is. I'm not being realistic with the colors. Salt and carbon will be the only white and black colors. Did you notice my choice of colors for the lithium powders? Teal green for lithium, mixed in with light green for chlorine in lithium chloride, mixed in with red for oxygen in lithium perchlorate, etc.
TL;DR: There is a method to my madness!

Also, Carbon is supposed to look like a solid lump, not a powder.

I interpreted the carbon icon as graphite powder or something, with the consistency of heavy ash. It helps in visual codification to keep it the same graphic (according to my ocd at least ).

And the bottle is actually a factorio icon... from previous versions.

Yep but I really wanted to standardize all the tech icons to 180x180 res. With the newer Factorio versions, there are 180 res graphics for chem processing techs already in the base game, which look like 3d carbon molecule structures. Its your choice on which you wish to use, I'm just here to provide options for everyone .

Other than that it's looking good.

Thanks! I'm pretty new to such limited resolution graphics and am constantly worried weather or not it clicks. It's awesome to hear 3rd party confirmation.

[bobingabout]

Well, if you want to sort by metal type, then perhaps sort by Tier, rather than just "Basic", "High end" and "Alloy".

This list might not be complete, but it does actually include a few materials that aren't metals too.

T1 is anything that doesn't require research to be made.
Iron, Copper, Stone blocks, Tin, Lead, Silver and Glass.
T2 is anything that requires only red science, or a T1 material to make.
Steel, Nickel and Bronze.
T3 is anything that requires Green science or T2 materials.
Plastic, Zinc, Brass and Gunmetal, Aluminium, Gold, Silicon, Invar, and Cobalt/Cobalt steel (Zinc isn't a material, it's an alloying intermediate, therefore doesn't affect Brass/Gunmetal level, Same deal with Cobalt)
T4 is anything that requires Blue science or T3 materials.
Titanium, Tungsten, Electrum, and Ceramic(Silicon Nitride)
T5 is anything that requires Alien science or science pack 4, or just T4 materials as a component.
Nitinol, Tungsten Carbide and Copper Tungsten Alloy.

Also, there are 3 ceramics, which are powders until formed, and can't really have their shape changed afterwards. Silicon Nitride, Tungsten Carbide... and I think the 3rd is Silicon Carbide, but it has 1 specific use case and isn't considered a building material. Tungsten Carbide currently has a plate shaped icon, but probably should be a powder.
Also not on the list is Blue/Orange alien Alloy. (which uses the same icon base as Tungsten, Titanium and Cobalt steel, which is the old steel icon.)

You could also categorise certain metals as "Precious" too, like Gold and Silver. (And their alloys, like Electrum)

[Aonova]

Originally my whole "basic" "high-tier" and "alloy" idea came about due to the graphics presented in the game: copper and iron had a basic plate look and steel had a heavy "high-tier" look. I would make basic metals, based directly from ore processing, be variants of iron/copper. I would make chemically processed metals not directly form any ore, and metals which I found personally fit a heavy look be variants of steel (basically all the ones you made from the old steel icon). And finally I would replace the rest with composite alloy colors of the cobalt/gold icon.

I realize this wasn't well thought out, I suppose I'll rethink it

I'll post my ideas once I have something concrete. Thanks for your classification of the materials, Ill take it into account.

A question: Is solder plate solely for creating solder, or does it have any other usage (intermediate/building material)? If it is the former, I will disregard it in my metal hierarchy and create a specific contrasting graphic for it.

[bobingabout]

I'm fairly sure solder plate is only used for making solder, yes.

[TheSAguy]

qjm123 has stopped updating his mod - Extra Chests / ShinyBob and said you could use and of his mod in ours.
Please consider including some of his work. His icons are really nice.

Please see his post here.
Thanks.

[Aonova]

Alright, I'm in a slump right now. I'll need some ideas to move forwards.

So I'm working on the MCI graphics right now and thought it would be good to standardize the plates preliminarily. However, I'm quite torn on how to organize the graphics for plates. I did some visual brainstorming, coming up with some icon prototypes based on the vanilla plate icons:

my plate prototypes

The columns are prototypes of plates, based on iron, copper, or steel. The rows are arbitrary color/detail variations for visual sampling. Row 1 is the originals.

My issue now is indecisiveness on what graphics types to use for what materials in MCI to best uphold the whole graphics criteria (userfriendliness, visual harmony, intuativeness, etc). Tell me exactly what you think would look best how. Any random thoughts? Input would be greatly appreciated

[bobingabout]

To be honest, with metal plates, a lot of the Technology unlocks use the same icon for that as the plate, so ideally, they should all be in the 128x128 format, not just 32x32.

I gave you a copy of one that looks like in game iron plate, along with 2 others, all from that final fantasy game.

So, A is iron plate, C is copper plate, and E is steel. The others all look like altered versions of these.

I still think you should arrange them by tiers, which would mean changing the base game graphics of Iron and Copper to match.

Alternatively, category.

For example... if you look at some of my chain, and how the metals change as the tier progresses...
Iron, Steel, Brass/Aluminium, Titanium, Nitinol is a good standard construction chain.
Iron, Steel, Invar, Tungsten, Copper Tungsten is a good "Heatproof" chain.
Copper, Bronze, Brass is a decent 3 tier copper based chain, which I've mostly just used for certain water processing equipment.
Iron, Steel, Cobalt steel, Titanium, Tungsten carbide is a good "Tool" chain. (I think)

Certain metals are rarely used for anything on their own, for example, Tin is mostly an alloying metal, but is also used in electronics. Zinc is also mostly an alloying metal, as is lead, Nickel, and Cobalt.
Cobalt and Lithium have a special purpose for batteries.
Gold and Silver (And Electrum) are "Precious metals", and are rarely used outside of electronic equipment, mostly due to being good electrical conductors, and resistant to weathering.

So as you can see, there's quite a few ways to group them there.

In my opinion, you should probably choose tier based icons for most of the construction materials, and don't forget that Silicon Nitride and Tungsten Carbide should be powders (Along with quite a few intermediate stages, or powdered versions of some metals).

Anyway, without being told what most of these plates in your example are, I couldn't guess. I'm guessing C goes Copper, Silver, Gold. E2 could be cobalt steel. B2 Is that distinct brass colour.

Though to be honest, I think that as a plate, these items should probably have a more uniform shape. Column B, and D look like they've either been formed, or not shaped yet, and those in F, G and H (Although I really like G), those shapes tend to be made to specifically be that shape as a strength reinforcement measure, so not ideal as a generic metal icon.

Which is one reason why I was looking back at those final fantasy icons I linked. Obviously the Iron, Copper and Steel plates (even though steel is a beam) do fit, and recoloured versions would work well for similar metals. we also have this one as a nice starting point for the tech icon https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsjrmfp39psey ... n.png?dl=0

This one https://www.dropbox.com/s/99qfguppf46jz ... n.png?dl=0 I think would work well as some sort of precious metal icon, like silver, gold etc, one good reason why I used it for cobalt. it could also be a good starting point for other non-construction metals like Solder, Cobalt, Zinc, Lithium and Silicon.

And this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdvylcz3ok2wx ... n.png?dl=0 also a good one to use for non-construction metals.

I hope I don't come off too negative with these comments.

[Aonova]

YES, awesome criticism. Thanks a bunch for taking the time

To be honest, with metal plates, a lot of the Technology unlocks use the same icon for that as the plate, so ideally, they should all be in the 128x128 format, not just 32x32.

With low resolution icons, it looks better to me if they are hand made rather than resized from higher resolutions due to opacity artifacts making the later look akin to smudges. I can always hand make the tech icons by Frankenstein-ing the base game processing tech icons. I daresay its easier than the 32x32 icon due to more pixels.

So, A is iron plate, C is copper plate, and E is steel. The others all look like altered versions of these.

Bingo

I still think you should arrange them by tiers, which would mean changing the base game graphics of Iron and Copper to match.

Interesting. As a design policy I was always fixated on revolving around the base game rather than changing it. Actually, that was half the reason I felt so stuck. If you are fine with changes in vanilla for standardization, that's pretty liberating. This may however bring about the need for some standardizing graphics patches for other popular mods which work co-MCI eventually which use the vanilla representations of iron/copper/steel in thier icons to limit confusion (I'm looking at you Angles Refining/Processing). Thats not a bad trade-off actually.

So I'm guessing the look of the tiers should reflect the plates production complexity? A simple plate look be the "straight from the ground into a furnace" tier and more refined looks = more complex production respectively. In that case, using my prototypes as an example, a good tier progression would be (D)-(A/C)-(B)-(E/F)-(G/H). D to B are plates which goes from looking crudely formed or chiseled/chipped away and progresses towards refined/sharp shapes. E to H are a seperate "Steel-type" brick which increases in complexity.

Alternatively, category.
[...]
So as you can see, there's quite a few ways to group them there.

In my opinion, you should probably choose tier based icons for most of the construction materials, and don't forget that Silicon Nitride and Tungsten Carbide should be powders (Along with quite a few intermediate stages, or powdered versions of some metals).

My thoughts after reading this:

• Gold, Silver, and Electrum can have a specific plate look. Lets call it the "Precious" category. This will be based from the icon you linked me, edited to fit the vanilla style as best as possible.
• I think the T1 plates should be Iron, Copper, Tin, and Lead. This seems to intuatively fit their complexity for obtaining (all starting area ores thrown straight in a furnace. Makes even more sense with Angels custom ores). I'm thinking of having all thier icons changed to conform to a more rough/basic icon (akin to prototype D)
• T2 plates can be Bronze,Zinc,Nickel,Lithium,and Solder with Type A -style icon. Maybe Lithium and Solder and Zinc have unique icons due to niche usage?
• T3 plates can be Brass,Aluminium,Gunmetal,Cobalt, Silicon, and Invar with Type B -style icon. Maybe Cobalt and Silicon have unique icon due to niche usage as well?
• T1-T3 are the "Basic Plate" metals, which have a rough-to-fine gradient of plate looks. There can be a parallel scale for "steel-type" graphics, which I will denote as "Steel-type Tier x", or "STx". This will be on a different parallel scale, with a "processed steel brick" look of increasing complexity. The ST scale I'm rather unsure about so input is appreciated.
• ST1 is the Basic Steel look (Type E). Only vanilla steel should have this graphic
• ST2 is the Modified Steel look (Type F). I'm thinking Cobalt Steel and Orange Alien alloy for this tier.
• ST3 is the Heavy Steel look (Type G). Probably Tungsten and Titanium for this graphic.
• ST4 is the Advanced Steel look (Type H). I'm thinking Nitinol, Copper Tungsten, Tungsten Carbide, and Blue Alien Alloy for this tier. I might ultimately add some more complexity to this prototype to make it more obviously a step up from ST3. Then again, it already has a nice sleek sci-fi look going on, so maybe not. Any opinions?

I believe that covers every metal. After writing this I realized I neglected the vanilla copper icon (Type C). I suppose we could fit another tier for the basic plates using that. Maybe seperate out the non-construction metals (Solder, Cobalt, Zinc, Lithium and Silicon)? T2 and T3 look like a mess to me. I'll need some help to organize that. Input requested

prototypes for reference

Random thought: for MCI have you ever thought about migrating steel production from generic furnaces (straight refining iron) to alloy furnaces to use carbon or something? That wouldn't add too much complexity but would make it feel a bit more authentic and fulfilling to get steel production rolling. Then again, that assumes the iron in factorio is pure iron and not pig iron. Anyways, back to the topic.

Anyway, without being told what most of these plates in your example are, I couldn't guess. I'm guessing C goes Copper, Silver, Gold. E2 could be cobalt steel. B2 Is that distinct brass colour.

The coloration rows for my prototypes are completely arbitrary, just for some visual brainstorming. No meaning to them . Ultimately I think silver and gold will be its own shape anyways. See my thoughts earlier.

Though to be honest, I think that as a plate, these items should probably have a more uniform shape. Column B, and D look like they've either been formed, or not shaped yet, and those in F, G and H (Although I really like G), those shapes tend to be made to specifically be that shape as a strength reinforcement measure, so not ideal as a generic metal icon.

Thats a valid point, and thus I thought of splitting the MCI metals into two distinct graphical genii (iron-style plate and steel-style brick). And tiers could be apparent by quality/complexity of thier shapes. At the end of the day, its pretty intuitive albeit maybe a bit unrealistic. A good awesome but impractical perhaps. Forgivable in my book .

Which is one reason why I was looking back at those final fantasy icons I linked. Obviously the Iron, Copper and Steel plates (even though steel is a beam) do fit, and recoloured versions would work well for similar metals. we also have this one as a nice starting point for the tech icon https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsjrmfp39psey ... n.png?dl=0

This one https://www.dropbox.com/s/99qfguppf46jz ... n.png?dl=0 I think would work well as some sort of precious metal icon, like silver, gold etc, one good reason why I used it for cobalt. it could also be a good starting point for other non-construction metals like Solder, Cobalt, Zinc, Lithium and Silicon.

And this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdvylcz3ok2wx ... n.png?dl=0 also a good one to use for non-construction metals.

Definately useful resources for synthisizing tech icons due to high resolution. I plan to use the second one as a starting point for gold/silver/electrum. The first one is the iron plate icon basically, so the T2 base icon. Sadly the lighting/angle of the last icon would create a visual discord in my opinion if used directly in game, already apparent in the current version with electrum. Still valuable resources for techs and other stuff

I hope I don't come off too negative with these comments.

Banish the thought . Critical ideas are exactly what I need. Thanks again for giving your time to helping me out

Anyways, I'll post a visual representation of my currently envisioned metal hierarchy soon just in case this post was a bit confusing.

[bobingabout]

I'm looking mainly at your Tiering list when writing this.

T1 looks like a good list, Iron, Copper, Tin and Lead.
T2... is awful! because most of the list you could move sideways into a special category. Zinc and Nickel are mostly alloying metals, Solder is a special case Alloy, and Lithium is a special case too.
I'd probably say keep Bronze and Nickel in there, maybe even add steel to this list too, but move Zinc, Lithium and Solder out to their own section.
T3. Brass, Aluminium, and Invar would be the mains ones in this category. (Gunmetal would look the same as Brass if you try and keep true to it's colour.) Cobalt and Silicon are again special case. I'd possibly include Cobalt steel in this group too.
T4, well, you know my groupings, I'd put Tungsten and Titanium in this tier, with the Type E (base game steel) look.
T5, Nitinol and Copper Tungsten. (You forgot that tungsten carbide is supposed to be a powder) could use graphic F or G.
And this is where I left out Orange and Blue Alien Alloys, they're supposed to be in the same tier, so, effectively a T6, and use type H graphics.

Okay, so... Use my existing graphics for a colour reference if I state something close to what I already use.
T1: Type C or D graphics. Iron = Grey, Copper = Orange, Tin = Lighter grey, Lead = Dark grey.
T2: Type A Graphics. Bronze = Orange, Nickel = Greenish grey, Steel = Grey
T3: Well, I'd probably go with Type C, I'm not keen on the type B graphics. Brass = Dirty yellow, Aluminium = a very light grey/white, Invar = grey, Cobalt steel = blue/grey
T4: Type E graphics, Titanium a light grey, Tungsten a dark grey/black.
T5: Type F or G, Nitinol = Greyish, Copper tungsten = Dark Red/Orange
T6: Type H, Alien Alloys, their colours are obvious.

This leaves the Precious group, Silver, Gold and Electrum, that would possibly use a Bar or Ingot graphic.
And the Special group T2 Zinc, Lithium and Solder, T3 Cobalt and Silicon.
And don't forget the Tungsten Carbide and Silicon Nitride powders.

[Aonova]

And don't forget the Tungsten Carbide and Silicon Nitride powders.

Capture.PNG (260.19 KiB) Viewed 6676 times

So your telling me that "Tungsten Carbide Plate" needs a powder graphic? I'm confused

[bobingabout]

Yes, it does. That's an old and "wrong" graphic that I've been meaning to replace. Tungsten Carbide is actually a Ceramic like Silicon Nitride. So once you form it into shape, it's not easy to change without breaking it. As a result, it should be shaped into the final form, and therefore until formed, is a powder.

[Aonova]

Alright here is my proposed MCI plates hierarchy.

preview

I exercised a bit of artistic license on the colors, but they should be intuitive enough (based from raw ore color/chemical colors). Try to guess what metals these all are . Bonus points if you get the "Special" row correct (Hint: the last one is lithium).

plates1-preview.png (446.19 KiB) Viewed 6647 times

Answer:

Tier 1: Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead
Tier 2: Bronze, Nickel
Tier 3: Aluminium, Invar, Brass, Gunmetal
Special: Silicon, Solder, Zinc, Cobalt, Lithium
Precious: Silver, Gold, Electrum
Steel Tier 1: Steel, Cobalt Steel
Steel Tier 2: Titanium, Tungsten
Steel Tier 3: Nitinol, Copper-Tungsten
Alien: Orange Alloy, Blue Alloy

Note that some icons may look ugly due to background colors clashing. Try opening the image in another tab to get a good look. Also, the shadows are not part of the icons if it wasnt obvious enough

Anyways, these are the icon prototypes everything is based from. Ignore the numbering, it's not significant. Heres the link to my WIP folder for MCI for whoever wants it.

plate prototypes

prototypes.png (448.05 KiB) Viewed 6647 times

Anywho, criticism would be appreciated. I don't want to draw any more icons, so try thinking of something using the prototype icons available if you want to improve upon my proposed hierarchy. If there are no objections to my hierarchy, I'll push forward on MCI with it. Have fun .

[bobingabout]

Looking pretty good.

[fishycat]

Do you know qjm123`s work? ShinyBob is a very nice graphics revamp! It also has a nice order system.
It works pretty well and you could use it in your mods, qjm123 wrote.

What do you think?

[Aonova]

Do you know qjm123`s work? ShinyBob is a very nice graphics revamp! It also has a nice order system.
It works pretty well and you could use it in your mods, qjm123 wrote.

Shinybobs is great! Its what orignally permitted me to get into bob mods, back when it was called Extrachests or something. I couldnt play without it; the item and entity teir coloring and organization were too useful. Though my favorite part of his mod; the orginization of all the inserters, kinda became obsolete with bobs inserters haha. But yeah an awesome source for graphics, esp entities .

Though if any one thing is to be adopted from Shinybobs, Id choose the item and recipe catagorization. I hope thats being planned for the revamp mod, itd be a perfect addition.

[Aonova]

Looking pretty good.

Great . This'll be the final metals for MCI then. Ill do the MCI graphics one tech tier at a time using these graphics. Ill also update my older icons. Just a reminder, to get my lastest graphics at any time, just download the gfx-patch mod linked on the OP.

Have a nice day