We need alien tech back!

[Laramy65]

This has been a fascinating thread to read. Being a person who plays with biters off, I still think people here have raised an interesting point.

The point is that even though artifacts seem weird and convoluted, and not really necessary thing, it adds certain bit of satisfaction. I was initially happy with artifacts being gone, but i remember feeling accomplished carrying few thousand of them home after a killing spree.

It could be that they're similar to the heart on the companion cube in portal. It doesn't really change anything, but it made the players love it more than they did when presented with a box without it.

All in all i would love to see alien artifacts back as long as they have a different use. It would also help if they were rare and also didn't spawn from artillery kills. It would only really make sence if they were used for military stuff. There is alot of room there for zanyness there, like bullet tracers, or consumables which modify the effects of power armor for a limited time and have colourful visual effects, how about robots that mimic the players movements exactly even being able to deploy grenades. All of these things could use alien artifacts, and all of them would add something to combat

[ssilk]

Lately I had similar thoughts about it. I thought what a cool idea that was. It was such a cool idea and at the same time quite complex to go out and find the natives eggs.

I would bring them NOT back into game before rocket start. Yes you can collect them and they may work like the fish. But the invention of using them in bigger amounts is made AFTER rocket launch.

[Koub]

You'll always end-up with one of the two :
- lack of them if your needs are far greater than what the biters provide, forcing you to farm biters actively => no thank you.
- excess of them if you have way more biters to fight than you need (like sometimes it can happen with wood on particularly foresty maps and big bases => non thank you.

The only solution would be making the alien artifacts totally optional, but also usable in arbitrarily large quantities (for example with a transmutator allowing to transform them into any basic resource). But then, it would brake the immersion I think. That's just a tad bit too much alchemy for me.

[planetmaker]

I do believe it's a very nice idea - which suits certain play styles. As such it is an excellent idea for a mod. Nothing wrong with that and everyone happy?

[leadraven]

It might be not a new Science Pack, but alternative recipes for existing ones.
Something like " *** Science Pack + xxx Alien Artifacts -> 2x *** Science Packs".

Also allow drones to automatically pick Alien Artifacts from the ground, to automate artifacts harvesting in defences range.

[Laramy65]

You'll always end-up with one of the two :
- lack of them if your needs are far greater than what the biters provide, forcing you to farm biters actively => no thank you.
- excess of them if you have way more biters to fight than you need (like sometimes it can happen with wood on particularly foresty maps and big bases => non thank you.

The only solution would be making the alien artifacts totally optional, but also usable in arbitrarily large quantities (for example with a transmutator allowing to transform them into any basic resource). But then, it would brake the immersion I think. That's just a tad bit too much alchemy for me.

Here's an arbitrary large quantity for you- bullets, grenades, rockets, tank shells. A transmutator wouldn't fit factorio at all I think, as it would undermine resource gathering.

I am for the idea of making them rare, at first, so that when you kill an amount of biters you would in mid game you don't get many maybe five or so, but as you move to the endgame and kill large nests in minutes you can really notice an increase in artifacts gotten, when you get hundreds even. Military would be the main use, but it would be important that there is use for just 5 artifacts, just as there is use for hundreds.

[Koub]

You'll always end-up with one of the two :
- lack of them if your needs are far greater than what the biters provide, forcing you to farm biters actively => no thank you.
- excess of them if you have way more biters to fight than you need (like sometimes it can happen with wood on particularly foresty maps and big bases => non thank you.

Here's an arbitrary large quantity for you- bullets, grenades, rockets, tank shells.

You'd either get too many of them or not enough, nonetheless.

[netmand]

(in my opinion of course) The current implementation of aliens in Factorio limits just enough factory expansion and map exploration. The amount of interference is adjustable, to what would suit most players desired interaction level.

Before, the alien's nests yielded alien artifacts when destroyed, which could then be used to make alien science packs. I didn't connect well to progressing the tech of the factory. When the game was changed to having satellite launches yielding science packs; that made more sense.

Perhaps the need to call alien tech back is really a call for more tech choices than what science pack currently offers? Most tech gained using science packs are military bonuses. There are only a one each of production and logistic bonuses.

[Honktown]

You'll always end-up with one of the two :
- lack of them if your needs are far greater than what the biters provide, forcing you to farm biters actively => no thank you.
- excess of them if you have way more biters to fight than you need (like sometimes it can happen with wood on particularly foresty maps and big bases => non thank you.

Here's an arbitrary large quantity for you- bullets, grenades, rockets, tank shells.

You'd either get too many of them or not enough, nonetheless.

Autobalancing could be used: cleaning up loot when an entity dies depending on production, evolution, tech level reached etc. Of course the autobalance would need balancing...

[Laramy65]

You'll always end-up with one of the two :
- lack of them if your needs are far greater than what the biters provide, forcing you to farm biters actively => no thank you.
- excess of them if you have way more biters to fight than you need (like sometimes it can happen with wood on particularly foresty maps and big bases => non thank you.

Here's an arbitrary large quantity for you- bullets, grenades, rockets, tank shells.

You'd either get too many of them or not enough, nonetheless.

But why is that? I would think giving an item gained from military endeavours a use for military endeavours solve this problem. This could be balanced as exactly as you'd please.

Currently I feel as though I'm not getting enough alien fragments nonetheless. The purpose of artifacts for me could be vane and unnecessary. It doesn't really fit the game, where everything has clear and ecxact purpose. But as I and several others miss it after all this time, it's definitely worth considering.

A side note. Funny idea: have alien artifacts be there, but do absolutely nothing. Have a tooltip that reads "Does nothing"

[coppercoil]

I would like to have alien science just because it’s mined totally different. But for what purpose? I think resource multiplication/replacement would be too simple for that beautiful thing. Also, it should be optional for friendly gameplay. That’s a difficult question.

[5thHorseman]

Maybe it'd be ok if it was a resource that went into building and/or fueling pollution sinks, like the biter bases themselves are.

But for the love of all that's holy three needs to be a better mechanism for collecting then.

[Nemo4809]

Based on FFF #162 discussing their removal,

So long and thanks for all the science

Kovarex's playthrough of the current 0.15 has been continued in good form early this week, with him making the transition from a main bus to a station/outpost based factory. Feeding his factories growing thirst has meant a lot of time is spent out in the wilderness securing greater and greater areas of land, to exploit for its mineral worth.

As a consequence of the research overhaul, the alien artifacts are no longer used for research. This has been a really well received change, allowing players to finished the game without the need to engage the biters. The motivation for expansion is really clear in the game now, you need to expand to secure more resources. A secondary consequence of this is that sometimes the biters are in your way, so you get rid of them.

However without the research needed them, the artifacts are only used in a few niche products, namely the fusion reactor and level 3 modules. The requirements of these few recipes was not very great, and very quickly the artifacts start accumulating in large numbers. When the player has his late game armor and weaponry, the clearing of biters nests becomes very quick, and it happens on a larger and larger scale. Such the number of artifacts you need to pickup increases. It becomes then that the process of clearing nests and destroying the spawners is very fast, but the time spent collecting all the loot becomes a tediously long and monotonous task after each victory.

So after some thought, it was decided the alien artifacts that spawners drop are no longer needed. Their original purpose was to add them as a sort of 'RPG' layer to the game, such that combat would reward you with the artifacts to upgrade your character. In the latest state of the game this motivation just doesn't work, they serve more as a distraction than an addition to the combat. We hope this comes as good news to a lot of players, please let us know your thoughts on this, as it is quite a big change.

- https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-162

It seems the artifacts were added as "loot" like in your typical RPG. Factorio isn't much of a loot-based RPG though - there was limited loot variety (one drop only to my knowledge; not much equipment variety either) and frankly the game's combat isn't particular engaging; Synthetik this isn't.**

Also many people seem happy that engaging with the biters is optional - you don't get locked out of technology if you don't play with them on.

** I have not played the game but based on reviews I have watched, its combat is far more in-depth.

[GeneralTank]

Based on FFF #162 discussing their removal,

So long and thanks for all the science

Kovarex's playthrough of the current 0.15 has been continued in good form early this week, with him making the transition from a main bus to a station/outpost based factory. Feeding his factories growing thirst has meant a lot of time is spent out in the wilderness securing greater and greater areas of land, to exploit for its mineral worth.

As a consequence of the research overhaul, the alien artifacts are no longer used for research. This has been a really well received change, allowing players to finished the game without the need to engage the biters. The motivation for expansion is really clear in the game now, you need to expand to secure more resources. A secondary consequence of this is that sometimes the biters are in your way, so you get rid of them.

However without the research needed them, the artifacts are only used in a few niche products, namely the fusion reactor and level 3 modules. The requirements of these few recipes was not very great, and very quickly the artifacts start accumulating in large numbers. When the player has his late game armor and weaponry, the clearing of biters nests becomes very quick, and it happens on a larger and larger scale. Such the number of artifacts you need to pickup increases. It becomes then that the process of clearing nests and destroying the spawners is very fast, but the time spent collecting all the loot becomes a tediously long and monotonous task after each victory.

So after some thought, it was decided the alien artifacts that spawners drop are no longer needed. Their original purpose was to add them as a sort of 'RPG' layer to the game, such that combat would reward you with the artifacts to upgrade your character. In the latest state of the game this motivation just doesn't work, they serve more as a distraction than an addition to the combat. We hope this comes as good news to a lot of players, please let us know your thoughts on this, as it is quite a big change.

- https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-162

It seems the artifacts were added as "loot" like in your typical RPG. Factorio isn't much of a loot-based RPG though - there was limited loot variety (one drop only to my knowledge; not much equipment variety either) and frankly the game's combat isn't particular engaging; Synthetik this isn't.**

Also many people seem happy that engaging with the biters is optional - you don't get locked out of technology if you don't play with them on.

** I have not played the game but based on reviews I have watched, its combat is far more in-depth.

Actually I think a lot of people including would want a combat system that is more like a traditional top down shooter like Alien swarm and Enter the Gungeon. As people like me are more use to that style of control already and Factorio's combat goes against how shooting in top down views should work. In other words use mouse to aim and shot and decided grenade/throw botton and a dodge roll botton.

As for get stuff from aliens I think using alien ore (like in Schall Alien Loot or Alien Loot Economy) to transmute into ores to help with a shortage of a resource would help if I can't get to it in time due to attack or being too far away. Plus the artifacts can be used in research to crate alternative recipes that are cheaper and thus smaller factory.

[Nemo4809]

Based on FFF #162 discussing their removal,

So long and thanks for all the science

Kovarex's playthrough of the current 0.15 has been continued in good form early this week, with him making the transition from a main bus to a station/outpost based factory. Feeding his factories growing thirst has meant a lot of time is spent out in the wilderness securing greater and greater areas of land, to exploit for its mineral worth.

As a consequence of the research overhaul, the alien artifacts are no longer used for research. This has been a really well received change, allowing players to finished the game without the need to engage the biters. The motivation for expansion is really clear in the game now, you need to expand to secure more resources. A secondary consequence of this is that sometimes the biters are in your way, so you get rid of them.

However without the research needed them, the artifacts are only used in a few niche products, namely the fusion reactor and level 3 modules. The requirements of these few recipes was not very great, and very quickly the artifacts start accumulating in large numbers. When the player has his late game armor and weaponry, the clearing of biters nests becomes very quick, and it happens on a larger and larger scale. Such the number of artifacts you need to pickup increases. It becomes then that the process of clearing nests and destroying the spawners is very fast, but the time spent collecting all the loot becomes a tediously long and monotonous task after each victory.

So after some thought, it was decided the alien artifacts that spawners drop are no longer needed. Their original purpose was to add them as a sort of 'RPG' layer to the game, such that combat would reward you with the artifacts to upgrade your character. In the latest state of the game this motivation just doesn't work, they serve more as a distraction than an addition to the combat. We hope this comes as good news to a lot of players, please let us know your thoughts on this, as it is quite a big change.

- https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-162

It seems the artifacts were added as "loot" like in your typical RPG. Factorio isn't much of a loot-based RPG though - there was limited loot variety (one drop only to my knowledge; not much equipment variety either) and frankly the game's combat isn't particular engaging; Synthetik this isn't.**

Also many people seem happy that engaging with the biters is optional - you don't get locked out of technology if you don't play with them on.

** I have not played the game but based on reviews I have watched, its combat is far more in-depth.

Actually I think a lot of people including would want a combat system that is more like a traditional top down shooter like Alien swarm and Enter the Gungeon. As people like me are more use to that style of control already and Factorio's combat goes against how shooting in top down views should work. In other words use mouse to aim and shot and decided grenade/throw botton and a dodge roll botton.

As for get stuff from aliens I think using alien ore (like in Schall Alien Loot or Alien Loot Economy) to transmute into ores to help with a shortage of a resource would help if I can't get to it in time due to attack or being too far away. Plus the artifacts can be used in research to crate alternative recipes that are cheaper and thus smaller factory.

Have not played either of the former 2 games but I assume that Left Mouse Button is shoot primary weapon and Right Mouse Bottom is throw grenade? If so, that would be a problem as the Left and Right Mouse Button are already in use for interacting with entities and removing them respectively. I suppose they can make you hold Shift to engage "combat mode" and have the mouse buttons shoot/toss grenades instead of their regular functions but that's kind of inconvenient too.

Also many players hate the biters and play with them off. So the developers probably only put in the bare minimum effort into developing biters/combat - i.e. biters are a threat your factory needs to defend against and that's it.

In order for loot to be worth it, they would need to add a lot more depth to the combat. There need to be more weapons (+ customization) to earn. There need to be a larger variety of enemies on which to use the weapons against. While at the same time, the loot mustn't affect factory operations as combat just isn't for some people and they will play with the biters off - i.e. alien loot should only be used to enhance your combat effectiveness.

[GeneralTank]

Based on FFF #162 discussing their removal,

So long and thanks for all the science

Kovarex's playthrough of the current 0.15 has been continued in good form early this week, with him making the transition from a main bus to a station/outpost based factory. Feeding his factories growing thirst has meant a lot of time is spent out in the wilderness securing greater and greater areas of land, to exploit for its mineral worth.

As a consequence of the research overhaul, the alien artifacts are no longer used for research. This has been a really well received change, allowing players to finished the game without the need to engage the biters. The motivation for expansion is really clear in the game now, you need to expand to secure more resources. A secondary consequence of this is that sometimes the biters are in your way, so you get rid of them.

However without the research needed them, the artifacts are only used in a few niche products, namely the fusion reactor and level 3 modules. The requirements of these few recipes was not very great, and very quickly the artifacts start accumulating in large numbers. When the player has his late game armor and weaponry, the clearing of biters nests becomes very quick, and it happens on a larger and larger scale. Such the number of artifacts you need to pickup increases. It becomes then that the process of clearing nests and destroying the spawners is very fast, but the time spent collecting all the loot becomes a tediously long and monotonous task after each victory.

So after some thought, it was decided the alien artifacts that spawners drop are no longer needed. Their original purpose was to add them as a sort of 'RPG' layer to the game, such that combat would reward you with the artifacts to upgrade your character. In the latest state of the game this motivation just doesn't work, they serve more as a distraction than an addition to the combat. We hope this comes as good news to a lot of players, please let us know your thoughts on this, as it is quite a big change.

- https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-162

It seems the artifacts were added as "loot" like in your typical RPG. Factorio isn't much of a loot-based RPG though - there was limited loot variety (one drop only to my knowledge; not much equipment variety either) and frankly the game's combat isn't particular engaging; Synthetik this isn't.**

Also many people seem happy that engaging with the biters is optional - you don't get locked out of technology if you don't play with them on.

** I have not played the game but based on reviews I have watched, its combat is far more in-depth.

Actually I think a lot of people including would want a combat system that is more like a traditional top down shooter like Alien swarm and Enter the Gungeon. As people like me are more use to that style of control already and Factorio's combat goes against how shooting in top down views should work. In other words use mouse to aim and shot and decided grenade/throw botton and a dodge roll botton.

As for get stuff from aliens I think using alien ore (like in Schall Alien Loot or Alien Loot Economy) to transmute into ores to help with a shortage of a resource would help if I can't get to it in time due to attack or being too far away. Plus the artifacts can be used in research to crate alternative recipes that are cheaper and thus smaller factory.

Have not played either of the former 2 games but I assume that Left Mouse Button is shoot primary weapon and Right Mouse Bottom is throw grenade? If so, that would be a problem as the Left and Right Mouse Button are already in use for interacting with entities and removing them respectively. I suppose they can make you hold Shift to engage "combat mode" and have the mouse buttons shoot/toss grenades instead of their regular functions but that's kind of inconvenient too.

Also many players hate the biters and play with them off. So the developers probably only put in the bare minimum effort into developing biters/combat - i.e. biters are a threat your factory needs to defend against and that's it.

In order for loot to be worth it, they would need to add a lot more depth to the combat. There need to be more weapons (+ customization) to earn. There need to be a larger variety of enemies on which to use the weapons against. While at the same time, the loot mustn't affect factory operations as combat just isn't for some people and they will play with the biters off - i.e. alien loot should only be used to enhance your combat effectiveness.

That is mostly correct left mouse button is always the shot button but the right mouse button can be something else (Melee , Grenade , Dodge Roll etc). Space bar is used if another important ability is needed. Switching between modes isn't much of an inconvenience if its a single button press see fortnight. What is more inportant is the combat is familiar enough that noone needs to look it up the controls to defend themselves. Factrio right now doesn't have that which is a problem early game when a new players first reaction is to use the left mouse button to shot.

A better control setup would be like this

On Foot

Left mouse button - Shot weapon
Right mouse button - Throw Grenade
Scroll wheel - Change weapon
Alt + Scroll wheel - Change Grenade
Space bar - Dodge Roll
Tab - Switch Modes (Combat / Building)

In Vehicle I use the tank as the example

Left mouse button - Shot Primary weapon (Cannon)
Right mouse button - Shot Secondary weapon ( Machine Gun & Flamethrower)
Scroll wheel - Change Secondary weapon
Alt + Scroll wheel - Change Grenade
Alt + Right mouse button - Throw Grenade
Space bar - Turbo (I would want this be required to crafted but that would require vehicle grids to be standard)
Tab - Switch Modes (Combat / Building)

5 Button mice can be used via rebind but I wanted to make sure 3 button mice are supported.

On the note of using biter parts go check out JD-Plays bitter hell series. A good chuck of the base is dedicated to processing the biters. The mod important to the tread are Necromant, The Dead Burn and Schall Alien loot. Though I have an issue with Necromant is that the recipes it changes mainly research and power armor are all or nothing when it comes using the stuff from Necromant or the vanilla which is likely to cause issues.

Collecting the stuff however would require have a dune like harvester which unlike the C&C one sucks up what it needs to collect. It would of course be heavy armored for obvious reasons and likely armed too. A stationary one like Schall's Pickup tower can be used early on as most bitter are likly to die on the wall anyway.