Pneumatic pipes can be used to send the requests in the target logistic network to the source logistic network and then the requested items to the target. This is very, very fast. I think about 2-20 times faster than trains.
It has also an immense throughput (up to 100-500 items per second). It's nearly like teleportation, but has one simple tweak, read further to pneumatic capsule.
Reasons
See the 9th post in this thread: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 150#p56043
Inspiration
This was inspired by the fact, that Wube is situated in Prague near the old pneumatic station of Prague. See https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... tic#p51366
There is also this thread: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... rtal+Pipes
This mentioned idea could be the base technology of this suggestion. I think here to an "inside logistic network transport system" and also for a fast transport system for the character, instead of trains.
And is also inspired by the game Portal, which has those wonderful pipe system. This is also mentioned here:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... pes#p24173
There is also this "colored logistic network" idea, read here https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... tic#p38564
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ion#p18749
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 548#p23548
And then also some other threads:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=5&t=1929
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=886
And much more...
The pneumatic capsule
Why can this not replace the trains or belts? The problem is, that every transported item needs to be packed into a pneumatic capsule, before it can be shoot through the pipes. (I let the handling of this packing/unpacking free in this suggestion, because it is not important yet!) At the target, the capsules are unpacked and will soon clog the target chest/storage, if not transported back. Of course the capsules cannot be put into capsules and the requests for capsules in the pneumatic system will be filtered.
The capsules are also not that cheap, that they can be left alone at the target stations; you will need them back!Uses: This isn't useable for mass-transport and cannot replace the trains; this is only for supply, faster construction, building up far outposts or big bases. In other words: Extreme throughput over extreme distances, handling of short peaks. It will speed up the game, but will not replace existing transports.
How is this working in detail?
You place a "pneumatic requester chest" in the source logistic network and a "pneumatic active provider chest" in the target logistic network. (The logistic networks cannot be the same, but read further)
Then you need to connect both chests via pneumatic pipes. I don't think that special pumping stations or packing stations are needed. For the first I don't see the increase in gameplay and for the second there is already the need to assemble hundreds of pneumatic capsules and this system will be allowed to gain worth over time.
The requester chest now can "see", what items are missing in the provider chests network.
In other words: the sum of all destination network requests are send back by the connected provider chests to all connected requester chests in the source networks.
In other words: there is no need to tell in the source network: bring X number if Y items! No, the target network tells this to the source: we need X number of Y items!
In other words: the pneumatic requester chest has no toggles to request items, the toggles are automatic!
The logistic network in the source will now fulfill this request as it works now: Logistic bots feed the requester chests. Quite simple.
They are then packed into the capsules (needs also to be feed, and I let here open, how the packing works, but I think it should be really simple: if an item is delivered and if we have a capsule left, the item is put into capsule is send. Maybe the requester and provider should have extra capsule-stacks...
At the destination, the item is unpacked and construction/logistic bots will take them as this would be a normal active provider chest.
EDIT: I copied a part of the below answer into this first post:
Building a new outpost, example
All I need are some solar panels and poles, a roboport and a pneumatic provider. I walk/drive to the place with nothing else.
I place the solar panels, connect a roboport and then built inside the roboport the pneumativ provider. I connect this provider to the pneumatic requester in my main-factory, there, where I have all the other needed stuff.
Note, that this tooks me till here only 1 or 2 minutes. I don't need to walk back!
Then I put a normal requester chest and request logistic and construction bots.
Until the pneumatic net brings me the bots, I can begin to place blueprints, more roboports, create a train station. Make the whole outpost.
The logistic network will request the needed stuff for me, and the requests are forwared to the requester chests in my home factory and the stuff is brought then to me.
Now I can pick up the brought construction and logistic bots and they will begin their work.
I place some storage chests, so that my pneumatic provider won't run full.
I can now - without stop - place all other needed stuff as blueprint/ghosted entity. The things will be brought so fast, that I don't need to care about anything. If it begins to work slower I can place another pneumatic provider to bring the items near to the targets.
I can create a trainstation in an instance, the trainstation requests the raw resources and empty pneumatic capsules all that is brought back by train.
Pneumatic network, explained
No, no, no, no, no.Why should the requester have the capsules? The provider sends the items, so it should have the capsules.
Ok, I see, the names are confusing. Sorry, for that. I try to explain it a bit better.
Part 1:
Left is your home factory, this is the SOURCE. Here is, where (nearly) everything comes together. Here is, where you have loads of stuff on storages, that can be used to build more stuff.
Right side is the outpost. See above! This is the target of the pneumatic net, the place, where you need the items.
In the source network there is a PNEUMATIC REQUESTER chest. It REQUESTS items for the pneumatic network.
In the target logistic network is a PNEUMATIC PROVIDER chest, which provides the items, which are transported with the pneumatic network to the outpost.
Code: Select all
HOME FACTORY, OUTPOST,
SOURCE-Logistic network TARGET-Logistic network
----------------------- -----------------------
Pneumatic requester chest <------------------------------------- Pneumatic provider chest
The measured missing requested items
of all outposts are transmitted back
Pneumatic requester gets the transferred missing items from the outposts and requests the items in the source network...
Part three:
The bots will put the items AND pneumatic capsules into the pneumatic requester, they are then packed and transported in the pneumatic network and then put into the pneumatic providers at the other end, where they are unpacked and provided, like if it is an active provider chest.
Code: Select all
logistic bots fill in Logistic bots take the
"normal" items normal items out
| ^
v |
pneumatic requester -------- transport of full capsules ------> pneumatic provider
over pneumatic network
^ |
| v
Logistic bots fill in Logistic bots take the
empty pneumatic capsules empty pneumatic capsules out
Edge cases and building up a huge pneumatic network
Connecting some requester chests (into the same pneumatic network) in the same logistic network: the bots that fill the requester chest will try to take the shortest requester chest, but this should already work as expected. The same is also for provider chests in the target logistic network: the items are delivered to the nearest provider chest first (until full). I don't want to mix in here the problems, that the bots are all on the other end of the logistic area and other.
Having some requester chests in different logistic networks: the request will be send to the network, which has the most of the needed items left and enough capsules left. The distance should play a small role in this calculation.
Having some provider chests (at the same pneumatic network) in different logistic systems: the request is delivered to the "most need" first, and if there is space left at the target chests. Distance should play a small role.
Request and provider chests in in both logistic nets. Aka: there is one pneumatic networks, which connects two ore more logistic networks with both, provider AND requester chests: well. I think this shouldn't be allowed! I think a logistic network is either a source or a target, but not both.
If you manage to use two pneumatic networks for that: well. Why not? It will have the same problems as when having provider and requester chest in on logistic network and connect them via belts.
Building "Chains" of pneumatic and logistic network.
Logistic network A ---> Pneumatic network A ---> Logistic network B ---> Pneumatic network B ---> Logistic network C
It is a good question, if the requests of logistic network C are forwarded into Logistic network A. I have currently no good answer to this, but I tend to say no, cause it should be handled like in the electric network, where the accumulators in both networks cannot request accumulator power and you need to connect those distincted networks into one.
What can be done instead is, that if the pneumatic net B sucks off all walls from logistic net B, then there could be some new chest, a mix of requester and provider chest, something, which sends requests only into pneumatic network, but provides it only into the logistic.
How the request are send to the source?
There is this "long range smart bus"-idea: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... bus#p40712
This bus might be the way, how the requests are transmitted back, but that gains the prerequisite, that this technology is already explored.
I can think also to niftier ways.
For example: the current requests are send back every second in an capsule.
Or the pneumatic network includes also an own smart bus, which might be quite useful.
I think an important side effect should be to enable some pneumatic info screen, where I can see all connected logistic networks and their current requests/delivery rate etc.
How the pneumatic pipes should be built?
I think quite simple here. You need to built of course pneumatic pipes (I let it open if a normal pipe is enough). But because of the long distances there is no game play to built pipe by pipe. All I need is to say "connect to this chest". The rest is built in underground only. No neede to think about it.
If that is too less, then I think to long range construction bots, which can travel very long ranges only and take up a whole stack of items for construction, so that they can be used also for rails, power poles etc. to that far outpost.
But even then: the pneumatic can be built completely in underground. No need to see it. It might be useful to have a special layer for that, to see, how the items are pressed through the pipes.
Conclusion
There is some mechanisms needed to transport peaks of items very, very fast.
This suggestion should do exactly that.
it solves a specific problem.
