Recycler

[CrAzyP3rS0n]

I think that there needs to be a machine that is fairly expensive that you can put some thing like a inserter in and get the raw materials back so you dont have unused machines clogging up your inventory

[ficolas]

You doubleposted :s

And it has been sugested over 3 times.

[Coolthulhu]

The problem is, it wouldn't work well with productivity modules.
You can get 340% productivity in the current version. This means that 1/3 recycler + fully powered mega-assembly is a net gain in materials.
Storing productivity at which items were produced is kinda stupid - after all productivity can't make stuff from useless materials.

Another problem is that current engine doesn't yet handle productions with multiple results yet. Everything has only 1 output slot.

A recycler could probably be hacked to partially recycle stuff, though. By "partially recycle" I mean: rocket would first yield some gears, then some plates, then some electronic boards.
However such a recycler would either round down output or would need to store percentages for each not-fully-produced item.
Random chance of recovery like in Dwarf Fortress would be an ugly hack and shouldn't be seriously considered here.

[ficolas]

The problem is, it wouldn't work well with productivity modules.
You can get 340% productivity in the current version. This means that 1/3 recycler + fully powered mega-assembly is a net gain in materials.
Storing productivity at which items were produced is kinda stupid - after all productivity can't make stuff from useless materials.

Another problem is that current engine doesn't yet handle productions with multiple results yet. Everything has only 1 output slot.

A recycler could probably be hacked to partially recycle stuff, though. By "partially recycle" I mean: rocket would first yield some gears, then some plates, then some electronic boards.
However such a recycler would either round down output or would need to store percentages for each not-fully-produced item.
Random chance of recovery like in Dwarf Fortress would be an ugly hack and shouldn't be seriously considered here.

Well firstly the recycler doesnt necesarilly need to accept modules, but I agree with other things, but what I think is that items in factorio are massproduced, you will have tons and tons of iron copper stone etc, so 10 copper used to make something wont make much difference.

[Coolthulhu]

Well firstly the recycler doesnt necesarilly need to accept modules

It doesn't need to, at 340% assembly productivity, 1/3 recycler would be enough to make free matter out of energy at +~13% materials per cycle.
If we accept energy-mass converter machines, that leaves us with the second problem.

[ssilk]

Well firstly the recycler doesnt necesarilly need to accept modules, but I agree with other things, but what I think is that items in factorio are massproduced, you will have tons and tons of iron copper stone etc, so 10 copper used to make something wont make much difference.

No, it would make much. You built thousands of ammo and later want switch to better ammo. What should I do now with that thousands of ammo in all the turrets? Just an example, I mean gun turrets will become better, than yet. Or think for the chests, burner inserters, burner miners and the old furnaces.

I mean to productivity-modules: by default not all is recyclable. Some items get lost, while recycled. Productivity will low this loss.

How it may work we (forum members) discussed some times ago: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=888
Coolthulhu's suggestion is the nearest to that.
I mean this could be a interesting element to send stuff as long through the recycler, as long, as it doesn't become some plates.

Hm, maybe, the recycler could be a device, which "eats pollution"??

[azoundria]

The productivity modules are an interesting aspect of the game. I assume that material is not magically created, as that doesn't make sense. Therefore, if you are not using productivity modules, some material is wasted/lost.

In the real world, of course, this material wouldn't simply vanish. It could change form, or simply be dropped on the ground. The game doesn't simulate this, and it isn't reasonable to expect it to.

So it would make sense if there's a recycler, this material wont be restored. A recycler would have to return no more material than would be required with the highest productivity module. Most likely, it should return less, since I would have to assume that even the highest productivity would still have some wasted material.

The recycler would have to be an entirely separate building. It would have to read the recipes backwards, instead of forwards. Luckily, since each recipe results in only one item, this means there is a single path of origin for each final product. It simply has to go through the recipe for each ingredient, recursively, until it arrives at the basic iron, copper, and steel from which every item is comprised. (My personal opinion, stone/ovens can be discarded.) Round the number of each base material down, and that would be it's output. This same calculation is done when determining the raw materials required to produce a machine when you hover over it, so I know it can be done quickly.

I know I have a bunch of obsolete equipment. (Burner miners, turrets, bullets, the gun you start with.) I would find it useful. The fact it's been suggested a few times, and I came to the forums to suggest it and find an exact thread for it already, means it's something that should be considered.

One thing I was thinking, since your character can build machines in the queue, perhaps he can also recycle them there as well, the same way.

[ssilk]

The recycler would have to be an entirely separate building. It would have to read the recipes backwards, instead of forwards. Luckily, since each recipe results in only one item, this means there is a single path of origin for each final product.

No, isn't that easy. Because even if there are currently no duplicate way to create stuff, there is no guarantee, that it is so in future. I mean this is important, that the recycler works with any item, even if it is very unused way to create it.
I mean the best part of the discussion is this page: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... t=30#p6231

I know I have a bunch of obsolete equipment. (Burner miners, turrets, bullets, the gun you start with.) I would find it useful. The fact it's been suggested a few times, and I came to the forums to suggest it and find an exact thread for it already, means it's something that should be considered.

I'm sure the devs do it, but I must admit, that it is currently not needed for playing, so - I would do it so - I think they did priorize it lower.

One thing I was thinking, since your character can build machines in the queue, perhaps he can also recycle them there as well, the same way.

Hm. I would like to see such scenarios:
A recycling station. One input, with all the old stuff and a cascade of recyclers, which recycles something, until the next downgrade is reached, then it gives it to the next cascade.
Maybe you find some wreckage. Take it up,drive it home, put it into recycler, cascade outputs raw materials.
You research new type of turret. Replace all and bring the old ones to the recycler.
And many scenarios more...

[Goddohando]

We could set a separate list of items for "recycling" of item regardless of its recipe.
So that when you recycle you get some stuff back that was specified for that item.

[azoundria]

If a duplicate way is made to create an item, then you cannot have a single count of raw materials required for that item. Assembler machines would have to distinguish the two recipes for the same item. Both of these would take some fairly major reworking of the game or result in lost features, and so they're unlikely. A work around would be to simply assume the most efficient recipe.

[ssilk]

Nothing of that ( reverse reciepes, complicted rules) is needed, when using the suggestion I made long time ago.

Example: If item A consists of B and C, while C consists of D, E, F
OR
A consists of G, H, I and H of J and K and I of L, M, N and O,
then recycling just dices between A-O, what the next result is. It does that with a limited number of turns, so that the propability to get out the wished raw material gets lower, the more complicated the item is. In extreme you get out what you put in, or you get less or more out, than what the item contains as raw material. This process has many tuning-variables, so that the right balancing should be no problem when really implemented.

Please see the link to the suggestion: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... t=30#p6231
I mean the most eventualities are explained in detail there.

And to repeat it: it should be easy to extend this mechanism, but the main principle (taking all recipes and look for the propabilities) is in my eyes a good idea, because its just stupid.

[azoundria]

That seems like a very complicated solution for a problem that's unlikely to exist in the first place. Is there a way to even delete items entirely (not dropping them), except to put them in a chest by the enemy spawner and block every other way out.

[Nirahiel]

You can put them in a chest and manually machine gun it with .. C if i recall correctly ? Well, that's the bound key for me

[ssilk]

Yes I did that. But it hurts really, if you have 100 guns, fully loaded and want to exchange the ammunition with better type.

And for the complicatedness: sounds more complicated, as it is. The complicated part is computing the reverse receipts, the easy is how to choose what's coming out from them.

I mean you can come around this computing of the reversing part, if (every) item has reverse receipts (see before) but what, if there are more than one reverse-receipt? Then my algorithm will also work.

[Nirahiel]

100 guns ? GUNS ? you craft several guns ?? 1 of each kind is not enough ?

[ssilk]

Yes, I crafted them for the creepers to sold them. They liked my guns and gave me many eggs in the market.

Just kidding. I meant gun turrets.

I mean currently the gun turrets are more or less useless, but in pre 0.7 I used them a lot! And 100 (and even much more!) gun turrets, each filled with 100 ammo is a lot of stuff. See also why I say, the gun turrets need to be preferred, should be more useable in earlier game, should have lower auto-fill maximum, should have more power...