We need alien tech back!

[ricktor16]

To start, I've been REALLY enjoying the changes made in 0.15.x so far. However, I'm sorely disappointed by the lack of incentives to continue killing the aliens! I believe you need to put alien spheres back in for tech. Whereas in older versions, once you start getting alien fragments, you'd have so many you don't know what to do with them, I think there should be an easy way to turn each sphere into a single space science pack (aliens are from space aren't they?!). This would give people an incentive to continue killing aliens in lieu of launching satellites. To get really going, you'll eventually need to launch satellites, but it can help people get started with space science, and motivate us to kill them buggers! Awesome changes so far though!

[gricey]

I like the idea of turning the fragments into something helpful, give an incentive for combat. One of the arguments for getting rid of the alien tech was that it allowed people the choice to play fully passive, but it's kind of taken away any benefits of playing fully aggressive.
Only concern is that the space science is meant to be really endgame, whereas you can kill bases pretty quickly into the game.

Maybe something like using the fragments as part of a recipe to replicate the military science, like with the nuclear refining process. 1 military science + 1 fragment = 2 military science or something like that. That way you could have the rewards from combat actually improve your combat ability.

[Koub]

Just why should people be given an incentive to kill aliens ?
Killing aliens is not the main purpose of the game. The Factory is, and the aliens are only a nuisance that tries to prevent us from doing so.
I'm deeply happy with the removal of the need to kill biters to get objects you either have not enough or too much.

[Roxor128]

I don't mind having alien artefacts brought back, just as long as they're an alternative rather than a requirement. I didn't like being forced to fight them just to finish the game. Yeah, I'm fine with fighting them now and then to blow off some steam or if they're in my way, but I should still be able to finish the game without going near them, at least in principle.

I do like the suggestion of making them an alternate way to make the military science pack, though.

[gricey]

Killing aliens is not the main purpose of the game. The Factory is, and the aliens are only a nuisance that tries to prevent us from doing so.

I suppose that's true, the incentive to kill the aliens is so you get attacked less.

I didn't like the old artefacts, felt weird that the ultimate research in a game all about automation wasn't able to me automated.

That said, I'm in my first 0.15 playthrough at the moment and it does feel a bit disappointing getting all geared up and defeating an alien base and then that's it, no reward for all that effort researching and making military gear.

[ricktor16]

@Koub, I do agree that killing aliens is by no means the primary goal of Factorio, but I just generally get great satisfaction from going through the enormous amount of tech required to make amazing weapons (not to mention the new uranium weapons) and using those weapons to wipe out massive colonies of aliens. The biggest draw was that if I killed all the aliens, I'd walk home with a huge pile of alien artifacts, even if they were unnecessary because I had 10k already haha. While it may not be necessary to kill aliens, it's a fun mechanic and something I enjoy in Factorio. And now it just feels disappointing.

I do very much like the idea of using alien artifacts to AUGMENT other technologies. Maybe they could become optional additions to recipes that increase the productivity of your factories. Using the military tech packs as an example, right now you get 2 packs for a grenade, turret, and ammo. Perhaps adding alien artifacts to the factory line (which would require you to rejig your belts, etc.) would result in 3 military science packs, or perhaps reduce the time it takes to create the original 2 science packs. There are lots of potential uses for the artifacts. Using them as a way to increase the efficiency of your existing factory without being a requirement would be great, while adding satisfaction from using all the amazing weapons

[Rush]

I’ve benn playing this game for a very long time, and one of the things I enjoyed a lot, is the success of defeating enemy nests. In the past when the alien nests were defeated, pink alien artifact orbs would drop from the nests. Those artifacts would be used for the purple science packs. I get that now the tier 4 science packs no lopnger exist, but I believe it would be a good idea to place the alien artifacts back into the game. They could serve as a way to develop one of the new types of science packs. If nothing else it would be great if you added them back in as a trophy for those who care. If that is the case, you could have 1-3 spawn each time a nest is destroyed. Instead of what it used to be, when one nest is destroyed 20-30 would spawn. I very much hope that this makes it back into the game, because without them, it takes away the satisfaction of deafeating an enemy nest.
Either way thank you for the game, its a very fun game to play alone and with my friends.

[dood]

Not unless you can automate picking them up and by that I don't mean marking them for deconstruction.
One of the reasons why they got removed was that all those entities on the ground would be a huge performance hog and that was during pre-artillery times.

With the artillery, we now have a tool that can potentially automate the generation of those things over huge stretches of land.
But only that. There's nothing to then get rid of them. It would be several times worse than it was before.

Also, does the term "storage overflow" mean anything to you?
It's not a fun time to be had and that's what those things would do even if you had a way to magically transfer them to storage.

[Rush]

2 ways to fix a problem like overflow.
1. Have a way to automaticaly delete items. Trash can, incinerator, etc...
2. Have something important that requires them to be used in crafting.

And if there were only 1-3 artifacts droping from 1 nest, This wouldn’t be a problem for a very long time.

[dood]

Well you're right, it wouldn't hit performance as hard as having 20 artifacts drop from a nest and I guess you could assign a fuel value to them so you can burn them in steam engines or something.

How would you collect them though?

[Rush]

Yeah I like the Idea of using the as fuel. But if that is implemented, they should probibly be refined in some way before using it as fuel. Because putting alien artifacts as fuel would be to convenient.
As in collecting them, you could have logistics bots pick them up when they are dropped.

[dood]

As in collecting them, you could have logistics bots pick them up when they are dropped.

And there's the problem.
If you auto-mark them for deconstruction, not only would the bots get picked off by biters, the artillery also shoots way beyond the reach of logistic networks.

Plus, in the case of personal roboports, you would have construction bots fly out of the inventory of the player right into an enemy horde or worse, a nuclear explosion and if bots would just constantly be auto-grabbing stuff in general that would lead to the same problem as bots flying out of the player while riding a train to repair turrets.
If they're unable to catch up to the player before running out of energy, they're stuck in limbo and depending on where the player goes next, might need hours to catch up with them.

[Rush]

I viable fix for that, would be implementing a conditional zone for construction bots.(probibly Outlined in Red) This zone could be assigned to an area that has enemies inside it. It would deploy the bots, when no enemies are detected, and have the bots retreat, or just not go out when enemies are there.
You would need to have a radar, to reveal the enemies in the zone for the area to function, but it could work.

[Tekky]

I really like it that killing biter nests has been made optional in 0.15. It is no longer necessary to kill biters to win the game.That way, people who play without biters no longer require a mod in order to win the game.

However, I agree that it would be nice if they dropped something that is useful. But there should be some other (peaceful) way to craft these items, so that killing biters remains optional.

[Hedning1390]

I think you could do it if you made the biters drop the item instead and make it vanish if stationary on the ground for x amount of time. If biters dropped them you could belt them away by placing belts where they die.

Their main use would be as pure fuel and also in liquefaction instead of coal. I think running a massive steam power plant off alien biomass would be pretty cool. Especially if right near the edge of your base so that they get to smell the smoke from their brethren and provoke more attacks to keep the fuel coming in.

[Koub]

However, I agree that it would be nice if they dropped something that is useful.

If the loot is not the main reason for killing something that will respawn indefinitely, then at some point, you'll end up with heaps of that ... thing.
I'd be OK if it removed pollution before despawning though.

[orzelek]

However, I agree that it would be nice if they dropped something that is useful.

If the loot is not the main reason for killing something that will respawn indefinitely, then at some point, you'll end up with heaps of that ... thing.
I'd be OK if it removed pollution before despawning though.

There was a request at some point for negative evolution modifier for killing bases but it got lost I think.
It could be treated as kind of reward for hunting biter bases.

[Tekky]

There was a request at some point for negative evolution modifier for killing bases

You may be referring to this thread.

Just as a side note, although the game is in principle able to handle negative evolution, it is a bit buggy. See this thread for further information.

[Rush]

Biters and spitters, are a neccessary part of the game, and defeating them is not optional if you want to proceed in the game. However, at this point, they can not be used in any way to benifit your factory. When the orbs were a thing, the biters did have some use, and there was also a reward for your effort in defeating nests. Now they are a huge annoiance, and the only reason to clear them is to get a little breathing room to build. I think It would be a good idea to implement some of the things that have been suggested above, to give the players a reason to defeat the nests that could benifit them in an important way.

[dood]

One way this could be re-introduced is by having biters not drop a collectible upon death but by having them create some special kind of "ore" that you can mine with a special miner so the stuff won't mix with your copper and iron from your regular miners all the time.
Since ore fields are tile based, they have pretty much no effect on the performance so you could plaster the entire exterior of a megabase full of "dead alien baby ore" or whatever with impunity and then burn that in your furnaces or turn it into iron or whatever.

It would look ugly tho.