Messy Tech tree for version 15

[KLennart]

I have found a lot of design bfs in the technology tree in versin 15.
- I can start research a technology, that require a research bottle I have not research yet.
- I can research a technology the gives me a possibility to start producing an object, that requires a component not yet reach. None of those should happened.
Some specific examples I had found so far:
* Purple research botton, requires electric engine, that is not researched yet
* Advanced electronics gives me blue research button (scions pack 3) that requires engine unit, that is not reachers t
yet
* I can research Power armor, but to produce it , blue electronic card is needed, but not researched yet
* Portable fusion pack requires yellow research bottle, not researched yet

To handle it, I propose
* a new technology kind , science) where the research bottle (scenes pack) are research, starting with green, so you only have red at the start of the game.
* I also propose that each technology shall only lead to producing of one type of artifacts. Enable fast transport belt, fast underground belt, and fast splitter is ok. But having both red (advanced) circuit, and blu research bottle (science ack 3) is not ok. Those technology with different kind of products makes it hard for me to find what I want, and difficult for game designer when planning the research dependency tree.

[impetus maximus]

the way it's done, you need to do some thinking and plan your research strategy.
i don't want that dumbed down.

[Jap2.0]

Similar things have been suggested before, and the summary is that if you did some of those things the tech tree would be a complete mess of dependancies.

[Acacel]

For me I think the tech tree is like a guideline, you want to build your blue packs? then your next resarch should be engine units.
With this the game shows you one way through the technologys but you have to decide if that way is your best way.
maybe its in your world the best way to have a resarch done while you know there will be no way to get one of the products to craft or use it the next time

when you give only access to the techs you can use when the research is done, you get no real tree. it will be a line with only some points where its on you to decide what is next
so in the end you could ask why no say tech x is free after 20 min of playing the next will follow every 5 min (but will this be the same factorio??)

[eradicator]

I actually implemented a generic function to fix both science ("don't have bottle yet") and recipe ("can't make all ingredients yet") dependencies once. Haven't ported it to .16 yet though (and the code isn't cleaned up).

Here's an example of what it ends up looking like in game.

fix-tech-requirements.png (605.43 KiB) Viewed 3763 times

[Zavian]

So how does it handle things like Kovarex enrichment which allows me to build nuclear fuel, but does not depend on rocket silo research (which is required to make rocket fuel which is an ingredient in nuclear fuel). If I just want to start kovarex enrichment running to make more U235, does it force me to research rocket silo first?

the way it's done, you need to do some thinking and plan your research strategy.
i don't want that dumbed down.

Personally I'm with Impetus Maximus here. I don't want a tech tree that dumbs things down and forces me to research things in a particular order. I'm quite capable of picking my own preferred order, even if that means I might sometimes forget to research a dependencies.

[eradicator]

So how does it handle things like Kovarex enrichment which allows me to build nuclear fuel, but does not depend on rocket silo research (which is required to make rocket fuel which is an ingredient in nuclear fuel). If I just want to start kovarex enrichment running to make more U235, does it force me to research rocket silo first?

It was a proof-of-concept experiment i tried, and after seeing the approximate resulting chaotic difficult-to-read tech tree i shelved the idea. As it was a completely procedural approach it would see the rocket fuel requirement and make it depend on rocket research like you said. A better (procedural) approach there might be to split all recipes into (temporary) stand-along technologies before resolving dependencies and then merge those with equal requirements back together, which brings its own heap of problems. Proceduaral approaches have their limits for this.

I do agree with the OP though reguarding that some of the technology dependencies should be fixed. Missing component research to actually make new science packs (blue, yellow, etc) after unlocking the bottle recipe gets me every time. Also i think it's mostly a problem of visual presentation. If it was possible to represent all dependencies in a visually pleasing manner that would be better, but it's not possible, so the current solution is a very good compromise between readability and usability.

[Koub]

The devs have already answered several times to similar ideas / suggestions that it worked as intended.
[Koub] Moved to Ideas and Suggestions