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[Align]

Is enemy spawning really fixed in 2.0.3? I still get a screen full of biters if I just set starting area to None, but as soon as I set enemy base size to None I get the expected RSO enemy distribution.

[orzelek]

Nope it's not fixed.
I needed to revert it due to issues with biter migration causing some strange notice.
Setting biters to none should also remove RSO ones unless you selected ignore map gen settings also.

I will be looking for a fix later today.

[orzelek]

Posted 2.0.5 on mod portal.
Fixes the enemy spawning in different way that doesn't break migration of biters.

[ytsejam]

I wonder if RSO changes terrain generation, not just resources and enemies.

I was unable to play .13 because you're getting high terrain segmentation regardless segmentation options (personal preference. I hate high segmentation). I installed this mod and now I'm getting much better maps when it comes to low/normal terrain segmentation.

0.13.3 vanilla default settings segmentation low

0.13.3 RSO mod default settings segmentation low

Not as good as .12, terrain segmentation. To me still looks pretty high for a map generated with segmentation set to low. Still, 1000x better than vanilla. I reverted back to .12.35 after not being able to get a decent map, but now I can play .13 thanks to this mod

Anyway, didn't find anything related with terrain generation and RSO, that's why I'm asking.

[ashnixi]

awesome mod! i am not willing to play without it. BUT i cannot download from the new mod-portal due to a server issue (probably thanks to my GOG serial key)...
it would be pretty awesome if the RSO mod would be posted directly in the forum.

[orzelek]

awesome mod! i am not willing to play without it. BUT i cannot download from the new mod-portal due to a server issue (probably thanks to my GOG serial key)...
it would be pretty awesome if the RSO mod would be posted directly in the forum.

From what I know you can download from portal without any keys/logins - just go to web page and download there.

[orzelek]

I wonder if RSO changes terrain generation, not just resources and enemies.

I was unable to play .13 because you're getting high terrain segmentation regardless segmentation options (personal preference. I hate high segmentation). I installed this mod and now I'm getting much better maps when it comes to low/normal terrain segmentation.

0.13.3 vanilla default settings segmentation low

0.13.3 RSO mod default settings segmentation low

Not as good as .12, terrain segmentation. To me still looks pretty high for a map generated with segmentation set to low. Still, 1000x better than vanilla. I reverted back to .12.35 after not being able to get a decent map, but now I can play .13 thanks to this mod

Anyway, didn't find anything related with terrain generation and RSO, that's why I'm asking.

Been asked about that few times now - RSO is not changing actual terrain in any way with exception of sand tiles for homeworld sand resource.

[ashnixi]

From what I know you can download from portal without any keys/logins - just go to web page and download there.

unfortunately not. you have to be logged in with your factorio account in order to be able to download mods from the mods.factorio.com website

edit: but the server bug is resolved now. so i can download your awesome mod from the mod portal! keep up the good work

[ytsejam]

I wonder if RSO changes terrain generation, not just resources and enemies.

I was unable to play .13 because you're getting high terrain segmentation regardless segmentation options (personal preference. I hate high segmentation). I installed this mod and now I'm getting much better maps when it comes to low/normal terrain segmentation.

0.13.3 vanilla default settings segmentation low

0.13.3 RSO mod default settings segmentation low

Not as good as .12, terrain segmentation. To me still looks pretty high for a map generated with segmentation set to low. Still, 1000x better than vanilla. I reverted back to .12.35 after not being able to get a decent map, but now I can play .13 thanks to this mod

Anyway, didn't find anything related with terrain generation and RSO, that's why I'm asking.

Been asked about that few times now - RSO is not changing actual terrain in any way with exception of sand tiles for homeworld sand resource.

Yeah, I did a proper testing using the same map seed (0779624856) to create 2 maps with identical terrain settings with and without RSO. Resources and enemies aside, they're identical. So it was the different seeds that were giving me the wrong impression.

0.13.5 RSO water medium segmentation low

LARGER VIEW

0.13.5 Vanilla water medium segmentation low

LARGER VIEW

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. Still can't play .13 without this. reading the .13 changelog, it seems devs were inspired by this mod to make that algorithm change to make resources that are further away more rich, but resource generation is a mess in the current experimental version. Besides, the way the mod, by default, "forces" you to use trains is perfect for a lazy ass like myself.

[authorized411]

In the Discussion and information thread, second post I saw the following:

By default enemy expansion is disabled since it's slightly defeating idea of sparse biter bases to allow some room for exploration.

This lead me to believe that biters wouldn't migrate. However, in this thread it is mentioned that RSO does not break migration. Would you mind adding to and/or clarifying the quote in the Discussion and information thread?

I have noticed that the migration seems to be slower than vanilla or just might be my spawn location. However, if this is true, would you mind providing some information on that.

Thanks. Love the mod and keep up the great work.

[orzelek]

In the Discussion and information thread, second post I saw the following:

By default enemy expansion is disabled since it's slightly defeating idea of sparse biter bases to allow some room for exploration.

This lead me to believe that biters wouldn't migrate. However, in this thread it is mentioned that RSO does not break migration. Would you mind adding to and/or clarifying the quote in the Discussion and information thread?

I have noticed that the migration seems to be slower than vanilla or just might be my spawn location. However, if this is true, would you mind providing some information on that.

Thanks. Love the mod and keep up the great work.

Good catch there
Seems I enabled it at some point for my game and it was left enabled in all released versions.
Question would be should it be enabled or not by default. On one hand migration will build up bases in previously empty areas - on the other it puts a pressure on player since biters will be encroaching on the base. I'll update the description for now and leave the migration enabled.

[snowhusky5]

Is there a way to to have biters spawned normally, like in vanilla? When using this mod the biter population seems to be quite low, and I barely ever get attacks that 1 turret by itself can't handle. I checked the config, and while you can set disable_RSO_biter_spawning = true, there is no option to re-enable the normal spawn. The comments imply that there is an option called override_normal_spawn, but this is nowhere to be seen.

for now I will just mess around with the couple of other options regarding enemies, but you might want to fix this.

[orzelek]

Is there a way to to have biters spawned normally, like in vanilla? When using this mod the biter population seems to be quite low, and I barely ever get attacks that 1 turret by itself can't handle. I checked the config, and while you can set disable_RSO_biter_spawning = true, there is no option to re-enable the normal spawn. The comments imply that there is an option called override_normal_spawn, but this is nowhere to be seen.

for now I will just mess around with the couple of other options regarding enemies, but you might want to fix this.

Set biter size to bigger at the start and reduce starting area.
Should give you a run for the money
I'd recommend NAtural Evolution (easier version) or Misanthrope(harder version) to buff the biters. More biters can be found in bobs enemies also.
There is also Swarm for ultimate difficulty if paired with one of above.

[Tyrindor]

Is there a way to to have biters spawned normally, like in vanilla? When using this mod the biter population seems to be quite low, and I barely ever get attacks that 1 turret by itself can't handle. I checked the config, and while you can set disable_RSO_biter_spawning = true, there is no option to re-enable the normal spawn. The comments imply that there is an option called override_normal_spawn, but this is nowhere to be seen.

for now I will just mess around with the couple of other options regarding enemies, but you might want to fix this.

Set biter size to bigger at the start and reduce starting area.
Should give you a run for the money
I'd recommend NAtural Evolution (easier version) or Misanthrope(harder version) to buff the biters. More biters can be found in bobs enemies also.
There is also Swarm for ultimate difficulty if paired with one of above.

Sadly It doesn't matter how many biter nests there are, if they never expand then there is no challenge. While I feel vanilla spawning is over done and they expand way too fast, RSO's biters practically don't exist on default settings. I am using bob's enemies as well. I was never attacked once in my 60 hour long map, never once had to make a turret, and only hunted for artifacts when needed. I did not see a single new nest pop up while playing and I had about a dozen MK4 radars scanning.

Is this intended?

[orzelek]

Is there a way to to have biters spawned normally, like in vanilla? When using this mod the biter population seems to be quite low, and I barely ever get attacks that 1 turret by itself can't handle. I checked the config, and while you can set disable_RSO_biter_spawning = true, there is no option to re-enable the normal spawn. The comments imply that there is an option called override_normal_spawn, but this is nowhere to be seen.

for now I will just mess around with the couple of other options regarding enemies, but you might want to fix this.

Set biter size to bigger at the start and reduce starting area.
Should give you a run for the money
I'd recommend NAtural Evolution (easier version) or Misanthrope(harder version) to buff the biters. More biters can be found in bobs enemies also.
There is also Swarm for ultimate difficulty if paired with one of above.

Sadly It doesn't matter how many biter nests there are, if they never expand then there is no challenge. While I feel vanilla spawning is over done and they expand way too fast, RSO's biters practically don't exist on default settings. I am using bob's enemies as well. I was never attacked once in my 60 hour long map, never once had to make a turret, and only hunted for artifacts when needed. I did not see a single new nest pop up while playing and I had about a dozen MK4 radars scanning.

Is this intended?

Are you sure you didn't enable paceful mode?
Thats what it sounds like. As soon as your pollution gets to a nest there should be a reaction and biter group will come to pay visit after some time.
There is also setting in config that can disable the biter expansion - it shouldn't disable reaction attacks to pollution.

[Tyrindor]

Is there a way to to have biters spawned normally, like in vanilla? When using this mod the biter population seems to be quite low, and I barely ever get attacks that 1 turret by itself can't handle. I checked the config, and while you can set disable_RSO_biter_spawning = true, there is no option to re-enable the normal spawn. The comments imply that there is an option called override_normal_spawn, but this is nowhere to be seen.

for now I will just mess around with the couple of other options regarding enemies, but you might want to fix this.

Set biter size to bigger at the start and reduce starting area.
Should give you a run for the money
I'd recommend NAtural Evolution (easier version) or Misanthrope(harder version) to buff the biters. More biters can be found in bobs enemies also.
There is also Swarm for ultimate difficulty if paired with one of above.

Sadly It doesn't matter how many biter nests there are, if they never expand then there is no challenge. While I feel vanilla spawning is over done and they expand way too fast, RSO's biters practically don't exist on default settings. I am using bob's enemies as well. I was never attacked once in my 60 hour long map, never once had to make a turret, and only hunted for artifacts when needed. I did not see a single new nest pop up while playing and I had about a dozen MK4 radars scanning.

Is this intended?

Are you sure you didn't enable paceful mode?
Thats what it sounds like. As soon as your pollution gets to a nest there should be a reaction and biter group will come to pay visit after some time.
There is also setting in config that can disable the biter expansion - it shouldn't disable reaction attacks to pollution.

100% sure. I've played 3 worlds since 0.13, one in vanilla and two with RSO. The vanilla one had biters swarming me all the time, never ending because i'd take out bases and then they'd respawn within an hour or so. Both RSO worlds, never attacked because I killed bases before pollution got to them, then they never respawn so I'm free to build until I need to expand to ore mining outposts. Same thing there though, after setting up an ore outpost, i'd just kill the 4-5 nest closest to it and the outpost no longer needs defended for the rest of the game. There's no point in setting up defenses if you can just take the bases out that are nearby and have them never respawn. It kinda defeats a whole aspect of the game.

The biter expansion seems disabled by default, I don't remember that being the case in 0.12 but my modded experience was very limited prior to 0.13.

EDIT: It appears biter nests still respawn when really far away from the starting zone, way out of main base pollution area.

[orzelek]

And setting biters to high or very high frequency and/or size doesn't help?

I do use Natural Evolution so have no idea how vanilla behaves but biters are very interested.
Default migration timers are very long I thinka nd there is a lot of place to migrate so might be slow to come to your base.
I did a test with default settings recently and migration worked properly.

Default enemy settings in RSO are meant to be easy. You need to increase them in map settings if you are looking for more challange.

[Tyrindor]

And setting biters to high or very high frequency and/or size doesn't help?

I do use Natural Evolution so have no idea how vanilla behaves but biters are very interested.
Default migration timers are very long I thinka nd there is a lot of place to migrate so might be slow to come to your base.
I did a test with default settings recently and migration worked properly.

Default enemy settings in RSO are meant to be easy. You need to increase them in map settings if you are looking for more challange.

I haven't found a real easy way to test nest respawns, I will play with biters 1 step above default next time and see if it more suits my taste.

My problem isn't really the frequency or size of the bases, it's the fact they never respawn. I saw some respawns in my outposts 1000-2000 blocks away from my base, but nothing remotely close to my base respawned. The new spawning system detects how many player entities are nearby and that's the factor for how often nest spawn in that area. I'm guessing that RSO cranked that way up to the point of nests never spawning within a huge radius of a big base.

[hi_impact]

Jumping into this conversation to agree with statement that biter respawning is practically non-existant on default RSO.

I'm not an expert on modding but I notice a considerable difference in respawn rate (or how/where they choose to respawn?) in 0.13 RSO over 0.12. Venturing out into the outer reaches also didn't really increase base difficulty, if that is also intended.

[orzelek]

Jumping into this conversation to agree with statement that biter respawning is practically non-existant on default RSO.

I'm not an expert on modding but I notice a considerable difference in respawn rate (or how/where they choose to respawn?) in 0.13 RSO over 0.12. Venturing out into the outer reaches also didn't really increase base difficulty, if that is also intended.

Base difficulty doesn't change that much - there are few thresholds where bigger worms arrive. They also get slightly larger with distance.

And RSO doesn't do anything with enemy migration. There is a new algorithm for that right now in base game that might have changed things. Also base game migration delay is quite long and RSO leaves tons of space to spawn in.

And setting biters to high or very high frequency and/or size doesn't help?

I do use Natural Evolution so have no idea how vanilla behaves but biters are very interested.
Default migration timers are very long I thinka nd there is a lot of place to migrate so might be slow to come to your base.
I did a test with default settings recently and migration worked properly.

Default enemy settings in RSO are meant to be easy. You need to increase them in map settings if you are looking for more challange.

I haven't found a real easy way to test nest respawns, I will play with biters 1 step above default next time and see if it more suits my taste.

My problem isn't really the frequency or size of the bases, it's the fact they never respawn. I saw some respawns in my outposts 1000-2000 blocks away from my base, but nothing remotely close to my base respawned. The new spawning system detects how many player entities are nearby and that's the factor for how often nest spawn in that area. I'm guessing that RSO cranked that way up to the point of nests never spawning within a huge radius of a big base.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean in last part. New migration penalises areas near player structures - it's just not that binary as previous one so victory poles don't work.

Please check in debug menu (F4+F5) and look for expansion candidates in F4 menu. You can see then where enemies would like to expand.