Auto's Factory

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AutoMcD
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Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

I built a few factories, then tried the 5/6/12 science build by Sekkmer:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12550
It seemed just a little oversize to me, and a little bit TOO compact. But I was inspired.
It had the same issue as my other builds, was great at making science but fell flat when called upon for processors and other late-game items.
I want to build by the numbers, but I also wanted to keep my roads for aesthetics and mobility. And I wanted it to tile nicely with the roboport.

About the numbers:
I started tinkering in Foreman to get an idea what would be reasonable production of both science and module output.
Foreman: viewtopic.php?f=134&t=5576
I decided upon a science output of 20/min of each type, which should support 10 labs according to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=8977
Foreman (at the time of this) has an error with oil demand not factoring in cracking properly so I made a spreadsheet to do that manually.

This is the result:
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20 science per minute, and using power armor to represent module production. It's rate of .02 means it can produce 1 power armor in 50 minutes. This is much better than my previous bases which would shut down science production for an hour to get a decent amount of circuits+processors.

It seems modest but most games I have trouble keeping more than 2 refineries going because of oil shortage, so this scale seems appropriate to me.

The result:
Image
(overview)

This is broken into two sections, the science (left) and the support (right).

In addition there is a blueprint for the roads and a solar farm.

Now for more details.
SCIENCE
UPDATED 5.17.16
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Auto Fac Science
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Procudes 20/min science of each type in addition to processors and all refining.
Resources feed in from the bottom left. Should you find yourself with an abundance of resources, the this section may be tiled.
Crude and water input is along the bottom, and not included in tiling. Not difficult if you are in such a position to feed 2+ of these.
If you tile this then you'll have to run faster conveyor belts. It's possible that even just running this to capacity may need a few faster belts, but I didn't notice any slowdowns in my tests for just 1 before my supply chain choked out.
I kept it simple for the purposes of this blueprint, not going to have blue conveyors until AFTER it's built! Assemblers are only T3 where the chart said to, otherwise I left T2 to save costs. Obviously they can be upgraded later if desired.



SUPPORT
UPDATED 5.17.16
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Auto Fac Support
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The support section produces pretty much everything I normally use and dumps them into passive provider chests, making the logistic network very well supplied.
This section is not tilable, and I wouldn't see the need, but if you'd like to add items which I don't have then there is obviously some extra room which for now is filled with some solar.
I would probably use that space for rocket parts later on but will not muddy the blueprints with such late tech requirements.
Pardon the lack of filled conveyors, it appears that my copper supply has run short.


ROADS
Image
Auto Fac Road
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The stone and cement outline with a roboport marker in center.
Colored concrete road idea just for fun
SOLAR:
Image
Auto Fac Solar
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Solar farm which follows the same theme. Turrets I was able to inset just a little more for those turns.
This is easily tiled obviously. If the area is safe and/or you end up with an interior corner with 4 turrets then easy to cut back on turrets. Delete the 2 lights and turret a panel fits right in.
The red wire is so that the corner lights always stay on, for no other reason than I like it.
About the accumulator to solar ratio, we have 107 and 150 respectively; 71%
As most of you know, someone did the math on this and came up with the ideal ratio to be 84%:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5594
I opted for heavier solar ratio because I also usually have steam going, so the quicker the accumulators get topped off the sooner the steam shuts off.
Adjusting is easy though..
Variant

A note about modules:
My theory on production modules is to put them in the top and work your way down.. Meaning they will have the most effect in the labs themselves, followed by blue science, etc.
The T3 modules are too expensive to put everywhere, so I suggest studying the Foreman graph to trace where you want to make the biggest difference. I feel that the biggest bang for the buck are the basic (green) circuits since they suck up 85% of the copper coils and 50% of the iron plates. Usually I'll add speed in there to negate the speed hit, and efficiency if I am caring about pollution at all.
The refineries I only needed 2.3, so rounding down with speed modules would have worked. But I nearly always have oil supply issues, chances are these will have productivity modules in them as well. In planning for the speed hit I rounded up.
For more opinions on modules, and they vary wildly, this is a good thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24530

I currently do not have a matching smelting setup, to be honest currently it's total slopsville sprawled out from the train station. Easy enough to roll your own.
According to the chart you should plan on 25 iron furnaces and 23 copper furnaces.

I think that covers it. Questions/comments welcome!
Last edited by AutoMcD on Tue May 17, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Shokubai
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by Shokubai »

Isn't the research speed of a lab 15 seconds with max research upgrades? 10 Labs x 4 Cycles/minute = 40 units/minute. Hence the 5/6/12 layout you seem to have halved.

Really nice layout thought. Some very creative planning. Maybe cut the sci to 5 and duplicate the square?

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Shokubai wrote:Isn't the research speed of a lab 15 seconds with max research upgrades? 10 Labs x 4 Cycles/minute = 40 units/minute. Hence the 5/6/12 layout you seem to have halved.

Really nice layout thought. Some very creative planning. Maybe cut the sci to 5 and duplicate the square?
Thanks. :)
I've started a new game to test this out on, still climbing out of the Stone Age and picking spots to build but it's a promising map so I'll find out if there's any issues beyond what I ironed out on a test map.

In short, I just used numbers from that thread, wasn't factoring in upgrades. By the time they are fully upgraded it will be fairly late in the tech tree and this will have been going strong for a long time. If it's simply upgrades that cause a few labs to go under-utilized then I'm ok with that. And it seems an even better excuse to cram productivity modules into them. :)
While the foreman graph numbers are set to 20/min of each, the 2/2/4 arrangement according to that thread should support 12 labs. I didn't run the setup for long enough to find where the bottleneck would be but in my test the science conveyor did fill up on me. I'll have to check it all again after upgrades and see. In any case I still think the 5/6/12 is overkill. Why not 4/4/8? I'll have to play with the foreman chart again to see. In any case the whole dang thing can be tiled!

The first tweaks I'm anticipating are actually oil related. I'm keeping the tanks because they are crucial for getting plastic made before advanced oil is researched and allow pump control of crackers, but I might try getting oil into the support section to output solid fuel. I sort of blew off rocket parts but the stuff comes in handy.. If there is enough crude. :)

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Shokubai wrote:Isn't the research speed of a lab 15 seconds with max research upgrades? 10 Labs x 4 Cycles/minute = 40 units/minute. Hence the 5/6/12 layout you seem to have halved.
I decided to delve into this in more detail. Ran math for a while and came to the same conclusion you did, that the max upgraded lab speed bonus of 50% brings us from 30s to 15s. That's twice the science pack input.

If I tweak things to determine the maximum science output of my 2/2/4 configuration without modules:
Image
Basically my setup tops out at 25 packs/min. 25% is nice but not going to cut it in that situation.

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Apparently nothing some basic speed modules can't handle!

To get a better idea if you were to plan for this without modules:
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Or if all T3 assemblers, a 3/4/7 arrangement.

3/4/7 still seems like it should be easier to deal with than the 5/6/12 build. This of course made me curious.. why 5/6/12?
Image

Comes out to nicely to 75 packs/min. According to our sources that can support 37 basic labs or 18 fully upgraded ones. I'll stop over and let him know he can double his labs. :)

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by js1 »

I have a question. The diagram shows 23 copper furnaces to 52 drills, or 25 iron furnaces to 54 drills. What is the correct ratio here? I thought the drill produces about the rate of 30/m (see also here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12543&p=138770), so the correct ratio should be 1:1. But in your diagram, drills have more like 14/m, which is too low.

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

js1 wrote:I have a question. The diagram shows 23 copper furnaces to 52 drills, or 25 iron furnaces to 54 drills. What is the correct ratio here? I thought the drill produces about the rate of 30/m (see also here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12543&p=138770), so the correct ratio should be 1:1. But in your diagram, drills have more like 14/m, which is too low.
I don't know the answer to that.. It's just what came out of the foreman tool. Maybe there is an error? I would check that thread on it. It's linked in the original post..

Image
My new game is coming along nicely.. I plan on using the same numbers to set up my smelting operation, so I'll find out for myself soon enough!

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Caught a problem with middle refinery gas output not being hooked up. Not a difficult fix, I'll update the prints when it's fully built. The light+heavy storage held out until adv refining could be researched, according to plan. :)
Not going to plan is my coal and copper situation.. Going to whip up some efficiency modules and solar then do some resourcing before it gets completed.

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

So my first real issue with the layout.. my resource feed isn't 100% yet so the circuit output is getting 100% eaten up by science, leaving none left to get solar panels or drones going. Which is a problem because I need these things too.

My solution was to add a splitter, 1/2 goes to science and the other half bypasses to the conveyor on out to the support section. It lays right in that walk path I preserved for myself, not pretty but functionally things are more balanced.

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by Frightning »

js1 wrote:I have a question. The diagram shows 23 copper furnaces to 52 drills, or 25 iron furnaces to 54 drills. What is the correct ratio here? I thought the drill produces about the rate of 30/m (see also here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12543&p=138770), so the correct ratio should be 1:1. But in your diagram, drills have more like 14/m, which is too low.
The mathematically perfect Stone Furnace to Electric Mining Drill ratios for Iron and Copper are 147 Furnaces to 80 Drills. This is because an Electric Drill produces 0.525 Ore/sec for Iron and Copper (Coal too, Stone is 0.65/sec though). A Stone Furnace can process 1 ore in 3.5 secs, or equivalently 2/7 ore/sec which is 0.(285714)... Steel and Electric Furnaces are twice as fast (before modules in the case of Electric Furnaces), So the reason that the furnace numbers are what they are is because of speed(or productivity?) modules.

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Image
Image

Things progressing nicely. If you look closely you can see refinery output fix and the green circuit splitter fix.
Iron input is my current holdup, currently working on train infrastructure and getting rail out to some sources.
Also had to go an a few hunting trips and concentrate on defense. Turrets on the corners of my important areas indeed came in handy.

As you can see, 24 furnaces for copper and iron both fit comfortably in the roboport size tile scheme. I expect when it's fully fed I'll need to upgrade the conveyor belts. By my estimation, getting productivity modules into the circuit and science production should drop demand so that 24 of each will be less than 100% utilized. Less than 20 of each should be ok then.

I underestimated power demands, getting solar up to snuff has been a struggle. I should have split the circuit output sooner. It seems for every panel I get placed the power demand rises to compensate.
Frightning wrote:
js1 wrote:I have a question. The diagram shows 23 copper furnaces to 52 drills, or 25 iron furnaces to 54 drills. What is the correct ratio here? I thought the drill produces about the rate of 30/m (see also here viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12543&p=138770), so the correct ratio should be 1:1. But in your diagram, drills have more like 14/m, which is too low.
The mathematically perfect Stone Furnace to Electric Mining Drill ratios for Iron and Copper are 147 Furnaces to 80 Drills. This is because an Electric Drill produces 0.525 Ore/sec for Iron and Copper (Coal too, Stone is 0.65/sec though). A Stone Furnace can process 1 ore in 3.5 secs, or equivalently 2/7 ore/sec which is 0.(285714)... Steel and Electric Furnaces are twice as fast (before modules in the case of Electric Furnaces), So the reason that the furnace numbers are what they are is because of speed(or productivity?) modules.
No modules are in that chart I made though. There obviously is a mismatch in data, if you are right then the Foreman program is wrong. It'll still be some time before I test for myself how the numbers work. But I can tell you this, in my screenshot I have about 20 iron mines and less than 50% furnace utilization. Not all mines will output fully either, not sure how valuable the total count even is to worry about. I'm primarily concerned with sizing the smelting operation properly.

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by Frightning »

AutoMcD wrote: No modules are in that chart I made though. There obviously is a mismatch in data, if you are right then the Foreman program is wrong. It'll still be some time before I test for myself how the numbers work. But I can tell you this, in my screenshot I have about 20 iron mines and less than 50% furnace utilization. Not all mines will output fully either, not sure how valuable the total count even is to worry about. I'm primarily concerned with sizing the smelting operation properly.
Mathematically, your 24 Electric Furnaces, with no modules, should be able to fully support 26 Electric Mining Drills. I noticed in the picture that your belts on the iron mine next to your furnaces are bottlenecked because of how you are sideloading all of their output onto the same side of the belt, so you are missing resource generation and throughput there. Easy to fix, just put a splitter before the last T-junction and sideload what coming at that splitter back onto the existing line from the other side (it becomes the left-hand lane). That should increase you iron ore production rate some from that mine alone.

AutoMcD
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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

I fixed that and a few other bottlenecks, finally had the resource input saturated for a minute there. Then started making rocket parts and I'm short on iron again!
I need to add a second unloading area to the train station now.

Overall I have to say that this is working out pretty well. It's not absolutely crushing the science but the labs are keeping busy and I've had enough extra material to make power armor and productivity modules, solar, etc. And it does mow though most of the ore I can feed it. A few of the extras are eating up steel so added a furnace or two there.
The basic idea of splitting things between science and extras worked out well and I do think it's sized ok for what I can provide resource-wise.

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Admit it, you were just browsing for more screenshots anyway.
Image
Image

Went shortly after that I went resourcing and didn't stop until the ore feed was saturated. Consumption dropped because the pumps went dry! Time to get the old train full of barrels going..

So I have a thought to make the resource buss to include iron and green circuits, then separate the science and support sections a little bit more, so that tiling the science section makes more sense. Perhaps 1 roboport sized "tile" with house 2 science sections.

The logic behind bussing circuits is that they are responsible for nearly half of the iron and the majority of copper consumption. So while the full section could eat up full belts of iron+copper, not nearly so many resources would need to be shipped if sending the circuits constructed already. yellow or red conveyor should handle it.
Also I want to consolidate the circuit production to make most use of production modules and/or speed beacon. It's perhaps the single best use of production module placement.

Designing by the numbers really helped keep things in proportion for this, but unfortunately the foreman program crashes upon loading right now. So I'll have to wait to think out the next revision.

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Just updated OP with new blueprint strings and screenshots. The material costs and other minor details not updated.

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Re: Auto's Factory

Post by AutoMcD »

Now that this has progressed to very late game, I'm finding myself terribly short on steel.
I'm going to reconfigure this into more of a typical mainbuss plan. 1 full roboport tile will be dedicated to buss and rail.
Science will be a 5-lab plan where 2 of the tiles will fit in 1 roboport area.
I underestimated demands of solar production, it's important. circuits and steel will be conveyored with an oversized supply. This will reduce most of the load for steel and copper on the other feeds.

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