Tired of lazy robots?

[opencircut74]

Are you tired of lazy robots that sit around in the roboport all day? To fix the problem, all you have to do is set up one of these!

Disclaimer- I am not responsible if your accumulators run out of power before the solar panels turn on. Use at your own risk!

[vanatteveldt]

Why not just have the mines output into the chests directly? You will use some more chests (14 instead of 8) but can leave out the 8 inserters and 30 or so blue belt - and it blueprints much more easily as the belts always require some manual tuning, and the mine+chest+mine blueprint can just be stamped on.

Edit : see also viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2569

[Maja153]

What good is this? It just wastes power!

[vanatteveldt]

Using bots for mining outposts makes it trivial to (a) build the outpost (no more connecting belts) and (b) load the railway chests, although bots have the tendency to fill the closest chest first so it's still not quite balanced.

[opencircut74]

I have already automated express belts, so that is not a problem. Also, I did not want to use more resources on chests when I don't have to. Yes, it does take up a lot of power, but it gives me the luxury of being able to place furnaces anywhere without the problem of conveyor belts getting in the way. My base isn't terribly far away, only about 15 seconds in the car, so I don't need to use a railway. I also have the logistic robot slots maxed and the speed maxed, as well as 3000+ logistic robots. Also, this setup is already gone because I mined it out completely. I now use this method to mine all of my resources.

In the picture, all of the furnaces are not on because I ran out of resources and need more .

[vanatteveldt]

What is the benefit to mixing belts and logistic chests this way? You output mines to a belt which are then inserted into log chests, and then your log chests are emptied to a belt which is then picked up into smelters. Why not just have the mines output to provider chests and the smelters get their input directly from requester chests?

[opencircut74]

What is the benefit to mixing belts and logistic chests this way? You output mines to a belt which are then inserted into log chests, and then your log chests are emptied to a belt which is then picked up into smelters. Why not just have the mines output to provider chests and the smelters get their input directly from requester chests?

Simply because I do not want to use up all of my resources on chests when they can be used elsewhere, such as assembling machines. The benefit is I use less resources and logistic robots do not need to fill 30 individual chests instead of 3.

[vanatteveldt]

Simply because I do not want to use up all of my resources on chests when they can be used elsewhere, such as assembling machines. The benefit is I use less resources and logistic robots do not need to fill 30 individual chests instead of 3.

There's no arguing play style . But I still don't get it. A chest is about the same price as 2 or 3 express belts (depending on how you value the resources), so it seems a chest only design will be cheaper in most cases than running a belt + inserter to shared chests.

In your design, you use 4 provider chests with 4 smart inserters to get the output of 12 smelters using 24 express belts.
This costs 24*21.5=516 iron and 48 heavy oil for the belts and 48 iron and 42 copper for the extra inserters (the 12 with the smelters are needed in any case). So, assuming all resources are equal, this setup requires 654 resources.

If you directly insert into chests, you need 8 more chests, which in total cost 40 iron, 76 copper, 64 steel, and 8 plastic (=24 PG and 8 coal). Again assuming all resources are equal (steel=5), the total cost is 468. So, the direct setup is cheaper in terms of resources.

Finally, robots carry pretty small loads, so it doesn't take more time to empty/fill 5 chests compared to 1 bigger chest. You might need a bit of extra buffer in the chests, but you get rid of the buffer on the belt.

So again, please design whatever you think is cool, but I don't see the efficiency argument. But I'm probably just missing something obvious?

[Shokubai]

Bots are not limited by a items per space like belts. Assuming you have infinite bots, you have infinite capacity to move items. There is no efficiency argument to be had given that Space is unlimited and resources are essentially infinite.

If you insist on playing with self imposed limitations then this is a different conversation altogether.

Also

What good is this? It just wastes power!

What wastes power? Chests?

[opencircut74]

Bots are not limited by a items per space like belts. Assuming you have infinite bots, you have infinite capacity to move items. There is no efficiency argument to be had given that Space is unlimited and resources are essentially infinite.

If you insist on playing with self imposed limitations then this is a different conversation altogether.

But that's the thing. I don't have unlimited resources. I don't want to use up lots of logistic chests when I don't need to. To me, logistic chests are more valuable than express belts because I am in very short supply of plastic, which makes me in short supply of advanced circuits. Also, express belts are much easier to obtain because I mass produce them. They are worth very little compared to logistic chests. Also, if I made a new resource collector and was able to obtain a lot of iron and copper ore, It would be useless because the logistic robots would only be able to fill a few of the chests before I ran out of resources. Having many chests being filled to the max at the same time is nearly impossible. Then, I would have only a few furnaces running instead of all of them. Yes, I could just fill the chests to half or one-fourth capacity, but when the resources slow down the chests would run out very quickly.

[Shokubai]

Bots are not limited by a items per space like belts. Assuming you have infinite bots, you have infinite capacity to move items. There is no efficiency argument to be had given that Space is unlimited and resources are essentially infinite.

If you insist on playing with self imposed limitations then this is a different conversation altogether.

But that's the thing. I don't have unlimited resources. I don't want to use up lots of logistic chests when I don't need to. To me, logistic chests are more valuable than express belts because I am in very short supply of plastic, which makes me in short supply of advanced circuits. Also, express belts are much easier to obtain because I mass produce them. They are worth very little compared to logistic chests. Also, if I made a new resource collector and was able to obtain a lot of iron and copper ore, It would be useless because the logistic robots would only be able to fill a few of the chests before I ran out of resources. Having many chests being filled to the max at the same time is nearly impossible. Then, I would have only a few furnaces running instead of all of them. Yes, I could just fill the chests to half or one-fourth capacity, but when the resources slow down the chests would run out very quickly.

Plastic is a VERY efficient resource. You should be able to make more than you can ever use quite easily. Also since it is a product of Oil It's only really limited by your coal supply.

Also I dont know how say 10 logics chests are more expensive then 10s or 100s of belt segments under any circumstances.
Lets Math cuz Im curious Yellow is 1.5 Iron, Red is 10+1.5 Iron, Blue belt then is 10+10+1.5 = 22 Iron per belt segment + 2 Lubricant which comes from 1x heavy oil.
One Chest is going to cost you 1 Red Circuit(2 Green = 4 Copper + 2 Iron) + 2 Plastic +2 copper, 1 Steel Chest =40 Iron Plate + 2 Green Circuits( 6 Copper 3 Iron) =12 Copper, 45 Iron and 2 Plastic and 1 Coal

Ok so compare
Blue Belt
22 Iron
2 Lube or 1 Heavy oil

Chest
45 Iron
12 Copper
2 Plastic
1 Coal

2x as much Iron plus the 6 copper. The Plastic is not quite a wash with the Lube so we will say its 3x as expensive for 1 Plastic including the Coal. Sooooo 1 Box is worth 3 belt segments? Somebody tell me how 1 box to replace 100(more????) belt segments is too expensive.

Also Also, why are you filling chests to the max as a goal? If you are feeding furnaces then you probably only want maybe 100 iron or copper ore in each requester chest feeding a furnace. There is no point to stuffing them full and frankly it's counter productive early in your logistc network life. I last did a Bots only furnace with 100 furnaces all fed by 50 logistics chests. Each chest requested 100 ore. These output to 50 Active provider chests and I had a station of Storage chests between my smelting and factory areas where the plate was moved on pickup. The output was also tied to Smart Inserters which wouldnt move until <20k plate in my network.

Unless I'm intentionally challenging myself to a belt only base. Bots become increasingly more effective as the game goes on and I try to use them as early as possible. I usually start by replacing Belts with slow items like Red Circuits, Batteries, Steel plate with Bots and chests, As I get more bots and throughput becomes less of an issue, I replace faster things. The standard 5/6/11 (Red/Green/Blue) Science build becomes trivial to supply at somewhere around 1000 Logi bots and virtually all belt can be removed.

I feel like there is a missing piece to this conversation. I would love to look at your save and use it to demo some ideas that may help you.

[opencircut74]

I feel like there is a missing piece to this conversation. I would love to look at your save and use it to demo some ideas that may help you.

If you want to us the save, go ahead. It has a few mods you will need to install though.

Mods- Electric Furnaces, Electric Void,Flare Stack, Flow Control, WaiTex

Flare stack- viewtopic.php?f=93&t=21586
Flow Control- viewtopic.php?f=93&t=20645
WaiTex- viewtopic.php?f=96&t=13142 (Full Version)
Electric Furnaces- viewtopic.php?f=93&t=13528
Electric Void- viewtopic.php?f=93&t=23735 (Newer version)

[Shokubai]

I can sum up your issue in 3 bullets...

• Use the trains
  Think more volume for iron and copper
  WTF belts from 100 miles away

Let me fiddle and Ill send the save back.

You need to go back to square one. By that I mean you need to reevaluate and remake your most basic supply lines. This means updating and significantly expanding your Iron Plat and Copper plate output. You have more than enough space to do something like this

You could easily mutiply that 5-10 times.

Raw resources are also something you need to address. Use trains....Just do it.

Fix those Things and everything else will get easier.

[opencircut74]

I can sum up your issue in 3 bullets...

• Use the trains
  Think more volume for iron and copper
  WTF belts from 100 miles away

Let me fiddle and Ill send the save back.

I have train cars and a train in my logistic system.

[Shokubai]

Your oil inst broken its just too small. Dont be afraid to move it and use trains to transport products.

You want to go for something like this as a minimum.

[Shokubai]

This is kind of how every first game looks. Yours is no worse than most.

WHAT.png (947.59 KiB) Viewed 6347 times

Put some time into infrastructure and raw materials and you'll easily have something like this feeding your base.

do this.png (863.15 KiB) Viewed 6347 times

Your base is just starving. If you are short anything its Iron, and Copper and there is TONS AND TONS of it out there. But you gotta go get it and put it on a train.

I would shut down all production down to just Steel Iron and Copper then go build up the bases for those raw resources and transport back to your base. Next, build the Smelting area and make it of sufficient size to cover your needs(20-30 of each to start) with room to expand. Make sure you account for extra iron to cover your steel production at one for one. Finally, Take the opportunity to teardown and reorganise things like red science to be more space efficient and take advantage of the bots or belt as you like.

Turn it all back on and smirk at your handiwork.

[opencircut74]

I can sum up your issue in 3 bullets...

• Use the trains
  Think more volume for iron and copper
  WTF belts from 100 miles away

Let me fiddle and Ill send the save back.

You need to go back to square one. By that I mean you need to reevaluate and remake your most basic supply lines. This means updating and significantly expanding your Iron Plat and Copper plate output. You have more than enough space to do something like this

You could easily mutiply that 5-10 times.

Raw resources are also something you need to address. Use trains....Just do it.

Fix those Things and everything else will get easier.

Can you give me a link that says how to use trains? I've looked at the wiki and it is still a mystery. I think I am able to fix this base into something usable, But I will need to import resources from far away. I guess I will make a system where I have everything in logistics and minimal amounts on belts. Also, How do you make it so It shows what the furnaces are cooking, what's in chests, etc. Thanks for the help! Should I just put concrete everywhere and remove everything to update it?

[Shokubai]

Can you give me a link that says how to use trains? I've looked at the wiki and it is still a mystery. I think I am able to fix this base into something usable, But I will need to import resources from far away. I guess I will make a system where I have everything in logistics and minimal amounts on belts. Also, How do you make it so It shows what the furnaces are cooking, what's in chests, etc. Thanks for the help! Should I just put concrete everywhere and remove everything to update it?

Bentham's guide is a great place to start but I warn you some things have changed...Namely some rail pieces were removed and chain signals were added.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSGYSbEPpbM
Good trains video. His base is very advanced at this stage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LXOogEoQIc

2 big tips on rail...
1) Plan from the beginning to make rail a highway not a two way street. by that i mean trains only go one way on any given section of rail.

2)LEAVE SPACE Dont shove things into tight turns and small spaces. Make things bigger than you think you will need them to leave you growing room.

The logistic or belts thing is one I will leave to your comfort level. You can support more than you think on your logistics as it is now and that means you could bring buildings much closer together so bots fly less far.

Alt Key will show what a building is doing or holding. I also go under Options>Graphics and turn off pollution on the minimap.

Honestly you are at that point where you either grin and bare it and ...eventually... launch a rocket or you clean house. I generally do the latter.