Factorio Forums

gnutrino wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:57 pm So, the more I think about the heat mechanics, the more it doesn't sit right with me. From a real world physics point of view, it's about the worst possible solution to the problem: "My machines keep freezing, should I modify the design to include a simple and efficient electric heating element given that it's already got a supply of electricity or should I run miles of uncovered, uninsulated copper heat pipes all over the place on the basis that being next to a chunk of 30 degree copper will surely thaw them?" Not to mention things like pipes full of clearly-liquid-at-ambient-temperatures ammonia somehow freezing over, or the plasma generator pulling several million degree plasma needing a 30 degree heat source to keep from freezing.

When speculating about what a heat mechanic on a frozen world would look like, I was imagining that machines would generate heat proportional to their electricity draw/fuel burnt (because, you know, that's how thermodynamics works) and run slower when under temperature, eventually stopping completely below a threshold. You could then use your skills learned on Gleba to make sure production keeps flowing to keep your assemblers working and producing heat to keep themselves operating and/or pull heat from other areas of the factory (or direct from nuclear reactors/heat towers as we got) to supplement parts of the factory falling behind or just to make sure things don't completely fail to frozen. Maybe have some sort of manual way to get machines up to temperature initially (the fun way would be using the flamethrower, the more sensible way might include some sort of "warmth capsule" that's basically just a thermos full of hot water that you splash around). The cryo-plants could then work the opposite way, needing the heat of operation carried away by coolant and heat pumps (essentially what the cryo-plant in coolant cooling mode does, although it seems a bit over the top to use such an expensive building for such a basic operation...) in order to keep them operating optimally.

I dunno, maybe I'll change my mind once I've played with it a bit, but I can't help but be a bit disappointed that instead we seem to have ended up with Yet Another Routing Puzzle: No Undergrounds Edition instead .

SuddenlySentient wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 6:58 pm I really hope we'll see some robot enemies on one of these planets, I think it would really mix things up. Imagine if a tank rolls up to your factory and then you get to use YOUR tank to fight it. Imagine fighting an army of terminator-esque robot gunners. Imagine them walking out of the smoke of a chemical artillery strike like it's nothing. I can't help but imagine all the possibilities. I don't expect to be disappointed by whatever the team cooks up, even if it's not robots.

TheVeteraNoob wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:36 pm Just a bit of nitpicking that could be an interesting mechanic. Everything in factorio consumes an unholy amount of electricity and as people know. Everything that consumes electricity is a 100% (or sometimes higher) efficient electric heater. So it would be interesting if machines that were running continuously would be self heating. And particularly inefficient things such as productivity infused machines could actually warm the surrounding machines.

gnutrino wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:57 pm So, the more I think about the heat mechanics, the more it doesn't sit right with me. From a real world physics point of view, it's about the worst possible solution to the problem: "My machines keep freezing, should I modify the design to include a simple and efficient electric heating element given that it's already got a supply of electricity or should I run miles of uncovered, uninsulated copper heat pipes all over the place on the basis that being next to a chunk of 30 degree copper will surely thaw them?" Not to mention things like pipes full of clearly-liquid-at-ambient-temperatures ammonia somehow freezing over, or the plasma generator pulling several million degree plasma needing a 30 degree heat source to keep from freezing.

When speculating about what a heat mechanic on a frozen world would look like, I was imagining that machines would generate heat proportional to their electricity draw/fuel burnt (because, you know, that's how thermodynamics works) and run slower when under temperature, eventually stopping completely below a threshold. You could then use your skills learned on Gleba to make sure production keeps flowing to keep your assemblers working and producing heat to keep themselves operating and/or pull heat from other areas of the factory (or direct from nuclear reactors/heat towers as we got) to supplement parts of the factory falling behind or just to make sure things don't completely fail to frozen. Maybe have some sort of manual way to get machines up to temperature initially (the fun way would be using the flamethrower, the more sensible way might include some sort of "warmth capsule" that's basically just a thermos full of hot water that you splash around). The cryo-plants could then work the opposite way, needing the heat of operation carried away by coolant and heat pumps (essentially what the cryo-plant in coolant cooling mode does, although it seems a bit over the top to use such an expensive building for such a basic operation...) in order to keep them operating optimally.

I dunno, maybe I'll change my mind once I've played with it a bit, but I can't help but be a bit disappointed that instead we seem to have ended up with Yet Another Routing Puzzle: No Undergrounds Edition instead .

malecord wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:39 pm Now... shouldn't the heat pipes attach to the machines on this planet? If the atmosphere is that cold having a tube nearby won't be enough, right? It would just disperse the heat.

Final Answer
At 1 atm pressure, starting from -77°C, the heat pipes need to be maintained at approximately 119°C (246°F) to raise the ambient temperature to a minimum of 30°C in a 27 m³ volume over 1 hour.

mcmase wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:30 pm

TheVeteraNoob wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:36 pm Just a bit of nitpicking that could be an interesting mechanic. Everything in factorio consumes an unholy amount of electricity and as people know. Everything that consumes electricity is a 100% (or sometimes higher) efficient electric heater. So it would be interesting if machines that were running continuously would be self heating. And particularly inefficient things such as productivity infused machines could actually warm the surrounding machines.

gnutrino wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:57 pm So, the more I think about the heat mechanics, the more it doesn't sit right with me. From a real world physics point of view, it's about the worst possible solution to the problem: "My machines keep freezing, should I modify the design to include a simple and efficient electric heating element given that it's already got a supply of electricity or should I run miles of uncovered, uninsulated copper heat pipes all over the place on the basis that being next to a chunk of 30 degree copper will surely thaw them?" Not to mention things like pipes full of clearly-liquid-at-ambient-temperatures ammonia somehow freezing over, or the plasma generator pulling several million degree plasma needing a 30 degree heat source to keep from freezing.

I agree with you guys completely, came here to say this. I think that running copper wiring everywhere is much less interesting challenge than "how do I keep all of my electric machines constantly generating heat". The copper wiring could come in only when you've made a mistake and frozen a section of your base, or to keep idle machines active. Or maybe assemblers need copper wiring (machines can easily freeze up) but I just don't see how a furnace wouldn't self-heat, as was said above.

But who knows, I'm 100% sure the devs thought of that and probably have a really good reason they went a different direction. I'm not turned off from the expansion in the slightest.

FactorioBot wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:00 am Here it is! (beep boop)

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-432

gnutrino wrote: Sat Oct 12, 2024 1:57 pm So, the more I think about the heat mechanics, the more it doesn't sit right with me. From a real world physics point of view, it's about the worst possible solution to the problem: "My machines keep freezing, should I modify the design to include a simple and efficient electric heating element given that it's already got a supply of electricity or should I run miles of uncovered, uninsulated copper heat pipes all over the place on the basis that being next to a chunk of 30 degree copper will surely thaw them?" Not to mention things like pipes full of clearly-liquid-at-ambient-temperatures ammonia somehow freezing over, or the plasma generator pulling several million degree plasma needing a 30 degree heat source to keep from freezing.

When speculating about what a heat mechanic on a frozen world would look like, I was imagining that machines would generate heat proportional to their electricity draw/fuel burnt (because, you know, that's how thermodynamics works) and run slower when under temperature, eventually stopping completely below a threshold. You could then use your skills learned on Gleba to make sure production keeps flowing to keep your assemblers working and producing heat to keep themselves operating and/or pull heat from other areas of the factory (or direct from nuclear reactors/heat towers as we got) to supplement parts of the factory falling behind or just to make sure things don't completely fail to frozen. Maybe have some sort of manual way to get machines up to temperature initially (the fun way would be using the flamethrower, the more sensible way might include some sort of "warmth capsule" that's basically just a thermos full of hot water that you splash around). The cryo-plants could then work the opposite way, needing the heat of operation carried away by coolant and heat pumps (essentially what the cryo-plant in coolant cooling mode does, although it seems a bit over the top to use such an expensive building for such a basic operation...) in order to keep them operating optimally.

I dunno, maybe I'll change my mind once I've played with it a bit, but I can't help but be a bit disappointed that instead we seem to have ended up with Yet Another Routing Puzzle: No Undergrounds Edition instead .

Upserter wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:12 pm Anyway, I still think your idea has merit, since keeping your machines working constantly is actually a significant challenge. The heat pipes (or the flamethrower) could be used to cold-start the machines, but then if they are at >90% utilisation they could produce enough internal heat to not need to draw from the heat pipes. You'd get an effective efficiency improvement for maintaining steady high utilisation, which is something that I don't think the game currently rewards you for. Input supply interruptions, or output consumption interruptions, would have real consequence beyond just seeing items back up on belts!