Push robots and fast inserters back

[TuckJohn]

Simply, you get robots and fast inserters too fast. You can get them within a few hours of playing.

[ssilk]

Simply, you get robots and fast inserters too fast.

Why? What is your criteria of "too fast"? For whom? Compared to what?

[SirRichie]

And wha you suggest to do?
Make which research a requirement?

Also, bots need blue research to be used sensibly. I think that is already a relatively high requirement

[Melfish]

I just saw someone complete the game in under 4 hours, so too fast is very vague (and relative).

[SHiRKiT]

I just saw someone complete the game in under 4 hours, so too fast is very vague (and relative).

Yet I have 100+ hours in one game and I think that Bots takes too damn long to appear.

[TuckJohn]

Simply, you get robots and fast inserters too fast.

Why? What is your criteria of "too fast"? For whom? Compared to what?

Sorry for being breif in my origional post. I think that robots should be goten very early into blue science, as apposed to late into green science. Also, as it is, you barly need to make any inserters to get to fast inserters. I think that fast inserters should be gotten a little bit before where you can currently get bots.

[LordFedora]

Except fast inserters aren't all that useful until you get to the later stages when you need more items going though assemblers/chem plants

Hell, in the speed run that Melfish talked about (though i haven't watched all of AntiElite's) we don't use fast inserters until oil/post science, and even then most items build so slowly that unless you are using modules, you don't NEED the speed outside of copper wire

(or modded, but that's a different problem)

[TuckJohn]

Except fast inserters aren't all that useful until you get to the later stages when you need more items going though assemblers/chem plants

Hell, in the speed run that Melfish talked about (though i haven't watched all of AntiElite's) we don't use fast inserters until oil/post science, and even then most items build so slowly that unless you are using modules, you don't NEED the speed outside of copper wire

(or modded, but that's a different problem)

That is exactly my point. You dont really need to have the fast inserters until late-mid game, and so the research should reflect that. As of right now, you can get the inserters within an hour of playing, and, if you are like me, never use regular inserters again.

[hitzu]

That is exactly my point. You dont really need to have the fast inserters until late-mid game, and so the research should reflect that. As of right now, you can get the inserters within an hour of playing, and, if you are like me, never use regular inserters again.

So why you cannot just stop spamming them everywhere.

Perhaps the problem is laying in the fact that they are too cheap and not so power greedy as it seems to be right?

[TuckJohn]

That is exactly my point. You dont really need to have the fast inserters until late-mid game, and so the research should reflect that. As of right now, you can get the inserters within an hour of playing, and, if you are like me, never use regular inserters again.

So why you cannot just stop spamming them everywhere.

Perhaps the problem is laying in the fact that they are too cheap and not so power greedy as it seems to be right?

That is possible. I would like it if they required a single advanced circuit. It would push them back on the tech tree, and make them take awhile to make.

[hitzu]

That is exactly my point. You dont really need to have the fast inserters until late-mid game, and so the research should reflect that. As of right now, you can get the inserters within an hour of playing, and, if you are like me, never use regular inserters again.

So why you cannot just stop spamming them everywhere.

Perhaps the problem is laying in the fact that they are too cheap and not so power greedy as it seems to be right?

That is possible. I would like it if they required a single advanced circuit. It would push them back on the tech tree, and make them take awhile to make.

What would it change? Eventually you will spamming them anyway, just like people spam red and blue belts even if yellow are fine for their purposes.

[LordFedora]

You have to be careful then, because blue inserters are required to make blue science

if they require red chips, then blue science requires two red chips instead of just one

honestly i don't see anything wrong with blue inserters, if i HAD to suggest a balance for them, it would be make them require either more green chips/gears, or draw more power

[hitzu]

or draw more power

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 87&t=12476

[bobucles]

Playing some of the major mods helps put into perspective just how much inserter speed you really NEED. Slow inserters are perfectly adequate for most things, and by the time they lag behind you have a few stack bonuses to keep them viable. There's no real reason to rush a fast inserter or have them available super early, and even when they hit the field they spend most of their life idling. It's not unreasonable to say that fast inserters are kind of overkill for their place in the tech tree.

IIRC, all inserters pay the same idle tax and cost the same energy load per action (burners do their own thing). So there's no real penalty for going fast, other than it being a bit more expensive up front.