Construction Request Chests

[SirRichie]

Summary / TL;DR
Impelement a chest which can request from the logistics network, but allows for construction bots to pick items from it.

Long description

• Construction bots often have to pick up items from various places across the factory.
• Some places frequently need the same kind of items. For example a defense needs power poles, turrets, walls (+ammunition)
• Blue chests could be used to ferry items closer to where they are needed (even making use of the cargo size research). However, constructions bots cannot pick up items from blue chests.
• Active provider chests do not allow for directed flow of items, they just store
• A chest that allows for requesting items like a blue chest, but also provides items to construction bots would streamline automated construction
• The behavior can be emulated by requesting items with a blue chest and using a smart inserter to put them into a red chest, using the smart inserter for limiting the transfer. But this is tedious to setup.

Reference
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 50#p110530

[ssilk]

That would brake the current functionality of the blue chests. It can be only added, so if it suddenly could be emptied, it changes the functionality.

The only way to bring this idea (which is not that bad) into the game would be to create a new chest.

[SirRichie]

Creating a new "construction material chest" would work for me as well. I am really indifferent about it.

However, it would not "break" the game if construction bots could access blue chests. Inserters can access blue chests as well to supply material... it's really the same thing.

[SHiRKiT]

@modtdingalk: Unfortunately I think this can't be moded into the game. Since if you create a chest with request properties, that's accessible to the logistic network, you could end up with a loop in the request, by requesting an item from the same chest you are serving, or serving an item to another Construction Requester Chest. It would need some kind of flag that would only allow Construction Robots to access or a flag to disallow only Logistic Robots from accessing it.

[SirRichie]

Not sure I understand this reply correctly, but it basically provides the reason why a change is needed.
Get items from blue chest / extra chest as a construction robot: yes
Get items from blue chest / extra chest as a logistics robot: no

[ssilk]

However, it would not "break" the game if construction bots could access blue chests. Inserters can access blue chests as well to supply material... it's really the same thing.

In most cases it will work as awaited, but I can imagine scenarios, where you don't want the construction bots to take things, that where requested for logistics.

Example: You built a street. Construction bots take the stone from the Requester chests, that deliver wall building. Your walls runs very fast empty and you come into a dangerous position, cause you don't have any walls anymore.

This needs to be avoided, because that is a very unawaited behavior and a change that makes things worse. O. K. "break the game" is maybe too strong.

[SirRichie]

In most cases it will work as awaited, but I can imagine scenarios, where you don't want the construction bots to take things, that where requested for logistics.

You are right. I have not considered that construction bots still operate "globally". I agree that a separate chest is the best approach to my suggestion.

[bobucles]

That would brake the current functionality of the blue chests. It can be only added, so if it suddenly could be emptied, it changes the functionality.

Please highlight a single occurrence where construction bots dig into a blue chest and it causes an interruption in factory production.

It's honestly no big deal. Construction materials are FINISHED goods. They aren't in queue for a factory by virtue of default. Construction requests are player commands anyway, which deserve a higher priority regardless.

[lancar]

That would brake the current functionality of the blue chests. It can be only added, so if it suddenly could be emptied, it changes the functionality.

Please highlight a single occurrence where construction bots dig into a blue chest and it causes an interruption in factory production.

It's honestly no big deal. Construction materials are FINISHED goods. They aren't in queue for a factory by virtue of default. Construction requests are player commands anyway, which deserve a higher priority regardless.

Construction bot comes and nabs a requested brick, concrete, blue/grey assembler, yellow inserter or non-blue conveyor to rebuild something that the biters levelled.

Ah, sorry.. that was more than one.

[LordFedora]

Yeah, but if the biters leveled it, then something is broken (also can biters break concrete/brick?)

[SirRichie]

Yeah, but if the biters leveled it, then something is broken (also can biters break concrete/brick?)

This is completely aside the topic of this thread.
Since this is a serious and genuine feature request, I would prefer if this thread stayed on topic.

[LordFedora]

My point was that the counter argument brought up by lancar wasn't useful, as we're discussing why construction robots being able to take from requester chests might be a bad idea...

the worst thing that could happen from the robot taking an item from the blue chests, is that a logistics robot has to go put one back into the chest, which due to how the logistics network works, will be sent that job the moment the construction robot "claims" the item from the box

Considering that besides repair packs, the only things construction robots do is
1) place entity the player requested goes there
2) replace entity the player put down (or told the robot to put down) that was destroyed
3) pick up an entity that the player ordered deconstructed

in 2/3 cases, the player wants the thing done by virtue of the job description, although only one will be effected by this change
in the other case (the other effected by this change) the only two forces that could destroy the entity (ignoring the eventual players on a different force) are the player him/herself and the natives

if the player destroyed something instead of ordering deconstruction, they are either bullet happy, or trying to empty an inventory (and likely wants it replaced)

and if the biters killed something, then (especially in the cases that lancar brought up) there is likely a stoppage in production, or in the more normal cases, a hole in the defenses. In both cases, having the bots replace the hole with whatever is in the system, marked for upgrading or not, is a sacrifice that i am willing (and i believe that i'm not alone in this opinion) for a faster response time

Obviously if there was a weight where closer blue chests where preferred less over slightly farther away red chests, or even slighter further away yellow chests, then i think we can find a happy medium, where the bots don't just take from whichever chest is closest, though not running halfway though the factory to the nearest storage area where the remainder of the assembly ones are from when i deconstructed a section of my factory an hour ago in order to repair a poorly placed circuit factory.

[lancar]

My point was that the counter argument brought up by lancar wasn't useful, as we're discussing why construction robots being able to take from requester chests might be a bad idea...

I think what you missed noticing was that all the items I listed were both construction items AND things needed to build something else (pseudo-intermediates). Thus both the logistics and construction bots will interact with them.
Thus:

Construction materials are FINISHED goods. They aren't in queue for a factory by virtue of default.

is just not true 100% of the time.

[silenced]

Thus:

Construction materials are FINISHED goods. They aren't in queue for a factory by virtue of default.

is just not true 100% of the time.

Well, it's only true for the top tier finished goods and those that cannot be made into something else later on. There's no further use for concrete for examplee, except paving. Maybe add concrete as a material needed for the final tier factory? And suddenly, it looks totally different.

Lights are a good example for finished goods that are construction material, you don't need them anywhere else.

The idea is good, with "construction chests", which may request stuff delivered by logistic robots and provide the content to construction robots exclusively.

[lancar]

There's no further use for concrete for examplee, except paving.

Rocket launch platform.
Pretty narrow niche, i know, but still

[SirRichie]

Summarizing, I conclude that we all agree such a feature would be useful.
Whether through an extra chest or by reusing blue chests I leave up to the devs should they choose to implement this.

[bobucles]

is just not true 100% of the time.

When does a player ever store inserters without intending to use them? The assembly chain for smart inserter research connects one assembler directly to the next.

Once again it's a situation where construction bots never draw the resources unless the player is directly requesting for them, in which case there is no issue.