Version 0.12.0

[ssilk]

Well, I admit, there was a lot of fine tuning needed, to squeeze out everything.

But on the other hand: this is still the case. Not in that depth, yes. But it's not so easy to fully use the speed of express belts. There are still a lot of such tricks left, and also some new come in.

Really? I promise. but they are different, and again, yes, they don't have this depth.

What counts for me more is, that now the gameplay is much faster with these belts. The belts are just one part of Factorio. Saying, that the belts have now not more enough depth is like saying that a car is not longer a car, cause it has an automatic gear.

There where many cases, where I said: more game-speed. I still think, that's much more important: Game speed.

Indeed the belts are now so fast, that you can transmit information above it.

[The Lone Wolfling]

Ah. Difference of opinion. You consider the previous game speed too slow. I did not - if anything I found it was too fast (there are entire tech branches that are basically irrelevant, because by the time you get there you're done the game. Case in point: even blue belts are generally irrelevant, as there's too little time between them and logistic bots to make it worth it to set up. And now blue belts don't even find uses on corners of belts, so you have even less incentive...).

I have yet to hit a game that has been improved by streamlining gameplay, and Factorio is no exception. If I wanted streamlined gameplay, I'd go play one of those "how many times can you click the mouse button" games.

And using an automatic transmission is perhaps a bad example - I am one of those people who find manual-transmission driving / racing substantially more interesting. For much the same reasons, actually. Namely that it is user skill at the time as opposed to the resources you have beforehand. Is it still a car? Sure. Is it a car that I am interested in watching? Not nearly as much as it would be if it had a manual transmission (and someone who could use it properly).

[Zeblote]

Fixing bugs like corners being slower for no reason and everything as a whole being inefficient is not "streamlining gameplay".

[orzelek]

Fixing bugs like corners being slower for no reason and everything as a whole being inefficient is not "streamlining gameplay".

Why would you think that?
I'd say it actually is. There is no need now to create artificial contraptions to fix bug with slow corners - we can concentrate on creating something else not worrying why this belt fails to work properly this time.

[Zeblote]

Fixing bugs like corners being slower for no reason and everything as a whole being inefficient is not "streamlining gameplay".

Why would you think that?
I'd say it actually is. There is no need now to create artificial contraptions to fix bug with slow corners - we can concentrate on creating something else not worrying why this belt fails to work properly this time.

Well, maybe if you consider the slow corners "gameplay"... to me they were an annoying bug that I ignored, knowing it would get fixed at some point.

[ssilk]

I agree: The slow curves was a bug.

The problem with the belts was also the game performance. Cause with pre-0.12 every item on the belts needed to be moved with every tick. 60 times per second. With a longer belt system this was really no fun.

Ah. Difference of opinion.

No. Cause you can make a game always slower if you really want. But not faster.

because by the time you get there you're done the game. Case in point: even blue belts are generally irrelevant, as there's too little time between them and logistic bots to make it worth it to set up. And now blue belts don't even find uses on corners of belts, so you have even less incentive...).

If you want. If you mean, that the game ends with blue belts: O. K.

And using an automatic transmission is perhaps a bad example - I am one of those people who find manual-transmission driving / racing substantially more interesting. For much the same reasons, actually. Namely that it is user skill at the time as opposed to the resources you have beforehand. Is it still a car? Sure. Is it a car that I am interested in watching? Not nearly as much as it would be if it had a manual transmission (and someone who could use it properly).

So, this is a good example, that nobody can do things to match everyones taste.
For me the difference between the previous and current belts are nothing else then a smell. Like automatic and manual drive. I like both.