[0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread

[orzelek]

I have a question about changing the config file. If, for example, I have disableEnemyExpansion = true and start a game, save my game, then change that to false, will the change actually take affect, or are the original settings used when starting the game kept in the save file and not refreshed every time you start and load the game?

For this setting I'm not actually sure. Most of ore-related settings work during generation so any ore thats generated remains and new patches use new settings.

Enemy expansion setting simply changes one of game settings. I know that those settings are stored in the save file so it might not update.
You can change it by hand from console easily:

Code: Select all

/c game.mapsettings.enemy_expansion.enabled = false

(value given in console needs to be reverse of whats in RSO config to have same meaning)

[Demosthenex]

I'm looking for recommendations for an RSO config for a multiplayer game. We will have at least five players, and we want no guaranteed starting area. My goal is to have any resource patch less than 2k from spawn be <150k of the resource, with scaling to 10k from center means you can find patches of 1M. We want to reduce the frequency of bug nests to make room for us early (ie: small nests <2k radius), but to have to fight to get resources further out (ie: you need a tank to secure that 1M patch because it has 5-10 buildings).

Any advice is appreciated.

[Align]

we want no guaranteed starting area

Do you mean as in no guaranteed one of each resource near spawn?

[orzelek]

I'm looking for recommendations for an RSO config for a multiplayer game. We will have at least five players, and we want no guaranteed starting area. My goal is to have any resource patch less than 2k from spawn be <150k of the resource, with scaling to 10k from center means you can find patches of 1M. We want to reduce the frequency of bug nests to make room for us early (ie: small nests <2k radius), but to have to fight to get resources further out (ie: you need a tank to secure that 1M patch because it has 5-10 buildings).

Any advice is appreciated.

First part is easy - just select starting area as none on map gen settings and mod will comply. I would not recommend that personally - you'll see why.

As for the scaling you would like - you can't set it up that way currently. There is no such fine tuning on scaling implemented - it works on distance^factor equation only. And a lot depends on random generation rolls since it tries to vary size/resource amounts per patch.

From what I see you want low resource game so I would recommend dropping starting resource richness in config to 0.5, then global richness to 0.2-0.5.
And then vary the biter settings from map generation settings and use charting command to see how it works.

[Zeritor]

I'm brand new to modding in Factorio. I've only played the base game a little bit.

I was annoyed at the base game due to being able to just find ore so close by and run a new belt. Essentially making long term/distance logistics rather useless.

I'm looking at playing it as a cross between Factorio and TTD. I want different bases that are producing different things, all linked up by train network. So I'd like to see things much more spread our than Vanilla Factorio but in greater number when I do find it (I.e. I don't want to search forever just to find one or two oil spots. I'd like to find a fair amount in one area to set up a giant oil plant).

Can I just use this mod with vanilla config, normal everything when generating a world and achieve this? Or should I tweak it some.

I started an RSO map right now and it looks good - but I haven't explored very far. I don't want to reveal map to check, as I also don't want to spoil the locations of ore.

[Demosthenex]

we want no guaranteed starting area

Do you mean as in no guaranteed one of each resource near spawn?

That one item, we don't want to have easy resources at spawn.

[Demosthenex]

I'm looking for recommendations for an RSO config for a multiplayer game. We will have at least five players, and we want no guaranteed starting area. My goal is to have any resource patch less than 2k from spawn be <150k of the resource, with scaling to 10k from center means you can find patches of 1M. We want to reduce the frequency of bug nests to make room for us early (ie: small nests <2k radius), but to have to fight to get resources further out (ie: you need a tank to secure that 1M patch because it has 5-10 buildings).

Any advice is appreciated.

First part is easy - just select starting area as none on map gen settings and mod will comply. I would not recommend that personally - you'll see why.

As for the scaling you would like - you can't set it up that way currently. There is no such fine tuning on scaling implemented - it works on distance^factor equation only. And a lot depends on random generation rolls since it tries to vary size/resource amounts per patch.

From what I see you want low resource game so I would recommend dropping starting resource richness in config to 0.5, then global richness to 0.2-0.5.
And then vary the biter settings from map generation settings and use charting command to see how it works.

That's basically what I've been doing. I was hoping maybe someone had some example settings.

Unfortunately I think we're still getting a starting patch despite my settings, but I will test further.

What would be really useful to understand is an equation for average total resource size for one resource by distance. For instance with my current settings I'm seeing average 100k of any one resource inside the first 2km, and finding 1M by 10km. That's about right, but instead of having to repeatedly experiment is there a simple equation you can provide? (ie: average total size == distance * factor * something)

[Demosthenex]

I have found that the starting area settings are NOT honored. In the config file I specify a 0 start area size, and I set ignoreMapGenSettings, and I still set starting area in the gen screen to NONE. Despite this I always get a perfect pretty handout.

New code, control.lua, line 917 in the preamble of local function spawn_starting_resources:

Code: Select all

	if starting_area_size == 0 then return end -- NO start area means don't generate one.

[orzelek]

I have found that the starting area settings are NOT honored. In the config file I specify a 0 start area size, and I set ignoreMapGenSettings, and I still set starting area in the gen screen to NONE. Despite this I always get a perfect pretty handout.

New code, control.lua, line 917 in the preamble of local function spawn_starting_resources:

Code: Select all

	if starting_area_size == 0 then return end -- NO start area means don't generate one.

You set the ignoreMapGenSettings - then it will ignore them and your none setting is indeed ignored. Seems to work as intended?
Just set starting area to none and don't enable the ignore flag.

Check for starting area size might be a good idea to add also.
New version is up.

[Demosthenex]

I have found that the starting area settings are NOT honored. In the config file I specify a 0 start area size, and I set ignoreMapGenSettings, and I still set starting area in the gen screen to NONE. Despite this I always get a perfect pretty handout.

New code, control.lua, line 917 in the preamble of local function spawn_starting_resources:

Code: Select all

	if starting_area_size == 0 then return end -- NO start area means don't generate one.

You set the ignoreMapGenSettings - then it will ignore them and your none setting is indeed ignored. Seems to work as intended?
Just set starting area to none and don't enable the ignore flag.

Check for starting area size might be a good idea to add also.
New version is up.

I tried several ways. The point was that even with ignore map gen settings and a spawn area of 0 it still made a spawn area.

The line of code I added did work! It also means I can create the game on the headless server now.

[MalcolmCooks]

Hello,
I accidentally played a little bit today with mods disabled, and while my radars were exploring, they uncovered resources and biter nests placed inappropriately by the game resource gen, not RSO. Unfortunately I already saved before realising my mistake and re-enabling my mods. So I tried to use remote.call("RSO", "regenerate") to change the newly generated areas to what they should be, but everything turned up in a different configuration.
I am using the same version of the mod and have not changed any settings, why should regenerate make a different configuration? Factorio has updated since starting the world, is this why?

[orzelek]

Hello,
I accidentally played a little bit today with mods disabled, and while my radars were exploring, they uncovered resources and biter nests placed inappropriately by the game resource gen, not RSO. Unfortunately I already saved before realising my mistake and re-enabling my mods. So I tried to use remote.call("RSO", "regenerate") to change the newly generated areas to what they should be, but everything turned up in a different configuration.
I am using the same version of the mod and have not changed any settings, why should regenerate make a different configuration? Factorio has updated since starting the world, is this why?

Did you modify terrain near starting area in any way?

It might sound strange and I've been thinking about fixing it but thats how it works right now - starting area is kind of seed generator for whole system.
And since you disabled/enabled mod it would lose the original seed along all of it's data.

[MalcolmCooks]

Well if placing stone bricks counts? It doesn't matter much since I had an earlier autosave to go back to, I only lost ~20 mins of gameplay. But its good to know how it actually works.

[orzelek]

Well if placing stone bricks counts? It doesn't matter much since I had an earlier autosave to go back to, I only lost ~20 mins of gameplay. But its good to know how it actually works.

I think bricks will count - they are treated as tiles.

I meant to swap to actual game seed for this - it will break the regen again. I'm usually changing subversion number when I'm doing stuff like that - might add it with 0.13 Factorio release.

[aka13]

Hey, I wondered if I can regen a specific resource without regenerating the rest of them? Somehow oil is way too sparse on default settings, compared to other ressources. While I can deal with it somehow, it's in no way pleasant. It doesnt add to the challendge, but rather to the tediousness.

[orzelek]

Hey, I wondered if I can regen a specific resource without regenerating the rest of them? Somehow oil is way too sparse on default settings, compared to other ressources. While I can deal with it somehow, it's in no way pleasant. It doesnt add to the challendge, but rather to the tediousness.

Hmm oil was reduced recently since it was overly... rich. Like 80+ oil wells rich in places.
It is possible it's a bit on scarce side now.

You can't regenerate one resource - only all of them. It's tied to the way mod works and can't be changed easily.

[aka13]

ALright. That makes sense. What happens if I change the config for oil, will it be changed on future, non-explored chunks? Or will the generation remain the same for the world?

[orzelek]

ALright. That makes sense. What happens if I change the config for oil, will it be changed on future, non-explored chunks? Or will the generation remain the same for the world?

It will be applied from next generated regions(7 chunks by default). So might need to travel a bit further then only nearest chunks.
It will also be applied if you regenerate - but be prepared for potentially different generation result then current one.

[aka13]

Alright, that also makes sense. Thank you very much!

[Targa]

In the config file there's a section for biter spawning (disable_RSO_biter_spawning ). I'm curious what RSO is doing with biters that is different than the vanilla game? I know you can adjust the biter to spitter ratio, but other than that, is there something different than vanilla?