Take the magic out of the ballistic turret

[tanelorn]

It does perturb me and feels very imbalanced that these giant 4 tile machine gun turrets are so cheap and require no power. Can't they at least require fuel?

I would really be in favor of some more turret diversity when it comes to scaling up. Just like with all the manufacturing ramping up, I would really like to see a small assault rifle type turret available early on, and later bring in the large turret.

I even have a hard time appreciating the magic conveyor belts, but this giant turret that has no power requirements... it seems very imbalanced.

That is all.

P.S. I saw this in an image search and it seems like a perfect example of a tier-1 defense turret.

[TheSkiGeek]

It might be interesting to start with burner turrets that are weaker, then research electric ones.

Or maybe something like their fire rate is cut by 75% when they're unpowered.

Armored turrets with more HP for the endgame might also be nice.

[TheDagmaar]

YAAAAAA! MORE TURRETS!!!
+1 for the idea BUT wrong forum section.

[tanelorn]

YAAAAAA! MORE TURRETS!!!
+1 for the idea BUT wrong forum section.

Um this is the ideas and suggestions forum...

[ssilk]

This is about balancing. So I will move it there.
BTW: We already have had some discussions around turrets in balancing, eventually you should read them first.

[Photoloss]

Just note belts were explicitly made to use no power because the developers intended for players to have access to this minimal functionality even in the face of a power cut. I would imagine the same philosophy applies to the bare minimum of base defense. In terms of realism you should also note the "magazines" used by all weapons can only contain atomic iron powder as a propellant based on their recipe. A basic targeting system could be maintained by a tiny built-in solar panel, a fire rate of a dozen bullets per second cannot.

If they ever add difficulty settings the hardest one should definitely feature power costs on all moving machines, and also wear/maintenance costs on all larger machines. For now "keep what you already have" is the basic philosophy for all gameplay aspects besides steam power and infinitely respawning enemies,

[tanelorn]

I am in favor of small generators for all that. For example KW Power mod has a coal powered steam generator. Small solar panels that come earlier in the tech tree, etc. Diversify your power grid by adding local producers which give you resiliance and handle the smaller needs like belts, turrets. etc.

[...]

There is a true point to the OPeness of the regular turret but in real life guns don't need power to operate although i do wonder what makes the infinitely powered bug seeking pivot work.
so i agree that there should be some balancing for the turrets.

[ssilk]

For me the reason why the ammo turret doesn't use power is obvious:
- ammo weapons don't need electric power in general
- It's the first tower; if you are new and you get a power down while the enemies arrive it is a super fail. It will bring players really to a point, where they throw Factorio away.
- It needs ammo instead.

For the movement part think, that there are some micro-solar-modules inside, which move the tower, but doesn't take much energy.

[Koub]

I think the search for realism should stop when the playing pleasure would stop. Just making any kind of automated defense would need factories, stuff to make explosives for the bullets, electricity and CPU for the targetting system, ... OR there could be some kind of "dumb" defenses, like automted artillery that would bombard a given zone, but that would only remove the CPU part needs. At some point, you have to accept non realism for the gameplay pleasure (or just stop playing and do things IRL instead).

[BlakeMW]

I like to handwave these things away by saying that the character has little magical self-powered gizmos from the spaceship wreck which can be used to provide limited power and functionality to machines. He keeps them in his dimensional pocket where he also carries locomotives and oil refineries, he only has as many gizmos as the plot requires.

[5thHorseman]

It would bother me, but then I realize that enjoyable gameplay is better than realism in some circumstances. Biters would have to be SERIOUSLY nerfed if turrets were where they belong in the tech tree: somewhere near the rocket parts.

[Engimage]

I think Ballistic Turrets are just fine as they are. They already require handling of ammo so we don't need any more difficulties with them.

However research on them is pretty unbalanced. There is no single concept on it right now. Ballistic turrets are effected by both gun research and ballistic turret researches while other types of turrets do benefit from a single type of research.
IMO there should be researches for weapon types - ballistic, laser, rocket, flamethrowers - all to increase their effectiveness. These will increase effectiveness for both handheld weapons, armor modules, turrets and bots with respective damage types.
And research for turrets in general - to increase their hitpoints, armor, maybe add a shield to them.

[tanelorn]

I think Ballistic Turrets are just fine as they are. They already require handling of ammo so we don't need any more difficulties with them.

However research on them is pretty unbalanced. There is no single concept on it right now. Ballistic turrets are effected by both gun research and ballistic turret researches while other types of turrets do benefit from a single type of research.
IMO there should be researches for weapon types - ballistic, laser, rocket, flamethrowers - all to increase their effectiveness. These will increase effectiveness for both handheld weapons, armor modules, turrets and bots with respective damage types.
And research for turrets in general - to increase their hitpoints, armor, maybe add a shield to them.

Hence: small AI turrets that appear early on the research tree. Ballistics turrets need a deeper research tree and the massive high power turrets we get should be further down that tree. But power is still necessary for all of them in my opinion. Just make them require coal / wood or use an external electricity source. A small solar panel would be a perfect addition.