Deconstruction Planner and storage chests

[Hogweed]

Hi,

I am a little confused about deconstructing. Where can I tell the bots to put it? If I plop down a chest, it gets loaded with everything I have in provider chests and makes a mess! If I use a requester chest, then all of that item (in this case walls) will be pulled from all over the map in place where I have stored it (I had thought that by placing some provider chests with walls around the base perimeter would help, but I think I see that is unnecessary?). I am guessing that just putting large number of chests to soak all the provider storage is what i have to do, as centrally located as possible. So in order to get storage chests with a single item, I think I will first load up on an item, drop the chest and fill it as quick as possible. But then that might leave lots of bots holding materials with no place to go???? (DOUBLE FACEPALM!!!)






So I guess the provider chest supplies output from created items, and they are moved to the storage chests where they are pulled. I think I see now!

Is it possible (yet) to order what to put in any particular chest? I just think it is kind of messy to have everything all mixed in one box, so I have to keep some steel chests full of the things I might need?

So if I tear down walls, they will just get placed in a chest I guess, I will have to first get all the provider chests empty, so when I deconstruct, all the walls will go into one box.

Would appreciate any thoughts on this!

Thanks!


EDIT - I just dropped 10 chests and I see that each item is being put into the proper one!! That is awesome! So I will keep a large number of these chests available so there isplenty of room to properly locate each item!

[Zourin]

well, first of all, to resolve your logistics issue:

Replace every inserter that is feeding a Provider/Storage chest with a Smart Inserter, and give them thresholds to stop at. This can alleviate storage chokeout. One chest shouldn't hold more than 3k of items on average, give or take depending on stack size. (A full chest of solid fuel is about 3k, but that's only 4 slots of electronic circuits). If you're importing/making solid fuel, for instance, stop doing so once you have 3k within your logistics system. Nothing goes into the Logistic network that isn't controlled by smart inserters, other than things I've deconstructed. If this poses some sort of backup problem, resolve it, but do NOT have an 'open dump' into your LogNet. Ever.

Second, build a deconstruction tool (Red "blueprint"), and just box-grab whatever you want to break down. Construction bots will deploy and move items/trees into storage. This has to be within the extended radius of a roboport.

Third, build a few extra storage chests. As a point of (possibly bad) habit, I build four storage chests next to each roboport. Some fill up more than others, but there's always space available if I deconstruct (don't underestimate how much freaking wood you can bring down with bots)

[CherryKiss]

I'm in full agreement about "no dumps"! I hate storage chests full of junk my logistics bots decided they wanted to import from everywhere... but I also hate smart inserters, and use them only when I must.

My answer would be...try placing the storage chest in construction bot coverage areas, but outside the logistic network, then you'll just get the deconstructed items, hopefully!

[Zourin]

I'm in full agreement about "no dumps"! I hate storage chests full of junk my logistics bots decided they wanted to import from everywhere... but I also hate smart inserters, and use them only when I must.

My answer would be...try placing the storage chest in construction bot coverage areas, but outside the logistic network, then you'll just get the deconstructed items, hopefully!

I try to use regular inserters for just about everything. Two regular inserters are just as fast and more power efficient than one fast inserter. Fast inserters are for chest-belt interaction, train loading, and gears/copper wire. Smart inserters, i only use for train unloading and insertion into the logistic network.

If you control your production thresholds well, you shouldn't have problems with storage space unless you're deforesting a lot of land, or are some kind of megabuilder

[kovarex]

I understand, that playing with/without logistic storage chests are different approaches and I don't want to force people using one of them always when they want to use deconstruction planner.
I believe that the solution is, that they can put items right into the player when there is no storage chest to put it to.

[Zourin]

I understand, that playing with/without logistic storage chests are different approaches and I don't want to force people using one of them always when they want to use deconstruction planner.
I believe that the solution is, that they can put items right into the player when there is no storage chest to put it to.

Maybe a seperate tool. One for deconstruction into personal storage, one for deconstruction into the logistic network. At least the player will know where the goods going, as you won't have half the stuff evaporating into the logistic network, and the rest filling your pockets 'till you can't do anything. If you have a tool that allows 'deconstruction to inventory' the player should be well aware they'll need to make room in their inventory to recieve.

Not a bad idea, all in all. it's usually long after I establish a logistic network before I would even consider building factories to build the little things I'd been buliding myself on the fly, so deconstructing to inventory saves a lot of bin rummaging.

[ssilk]

... into your LogNet...

LogNet. Nice abbreviation. I like it.

I understand, that playing with/without logistic storage chests are different approaches and I don't want to force people using one of them always when they want to use deconstruction planner.
I believe that the solution is, that they can put items right into the player when there is no storage chest to put it to.

Hm. This is painful, when in later game. Your inventory is full, you need all that to fill a car or a train with stuff for expansion and when I'm there the bots come and put in more than you can take. I can talk about dozens of situation, when it thought: wtf, I even can't make a chest to get rid of something. With 9.1 it's better now, but far away from home base you came too often in situations which are funny at the first time, but annoying at the fifth.

How about having a construction box? Put a blueprint in a construction box assembly and it requests a box with exactly the needed amount of items for building that blueprint. You can take the box with you as item, it can be used only together with exactly this blueprint. And the logical reverse direction is: use such a box together with a deconstruction and the bots will put all stuff of deconstruction into that box. Or in other words: something, which can be filled/emptied only by bots/inserters, and can then be compressed as item, but only by the character, or you create a special transport for it (rockets?).

[CherryKiss]

How about having a construction box? Put a blueprint in a construction box assembly and it requests a box with exactly the needed amount of items for building that blueprint. You can take the box with you as item, it can be used only together with exactly this blueprint. And the logical reverse direction is: use such a box together with a deconstruction and the bots will put all stuff of deconstruction into that box. Or in other words: something, which can be filled/emptied only by bots/inserters, and can then be compressed as item, but only by the character, or you create a special transport for it (rockets?).

I think maybe a simpler, more elegant solution would be to make a logistics chest that is ONLY useable by construction bots, for constructing/deconstructing. If you wanted the goods in the chest to be useable by logistic bots later, replace the chest with a supply/provider chest later.

well...or/and add a copy/paste method to copy a blueprint's material requirements, and paste it into a requestor chest...

[Sir Nick]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2433
Has already been brought up. See link above for several more solutions.

[ssilk]

Well, that's a bit different, but ok, the systematic is, that we might need new types of chests.

[Hogweed]

How about having a construction box? Put a blueprint in a construction box assembly and it requests a box with exactly the needed amount of items for building that blueprint. You can take the box with you as item, it can be used only together with exactly this blueprint. And the logical reverse direction is: use such a box together with a deconstruction and the bots will put all stuff of deconstruction into that box. Or in other words: something, which can be filled/emptied only by bots/inserters, and can then be compressed as item, but only by the character, or you create a special transport for it (rockets?).

I think maybe a simpler, more elegant solution would be to make a logistics chest that is ONLY useable by construction bots, for constructing/deconstructing. If you wanted the goods in the chest to be useable by logistic bots later, replace the chest with a supply/provider chest later.

well...or/and add a copy/paste method to copy a blueprint's material requirements, and paste it into a requestor chest...

When I first started using supply chests, I opened it expecting to be able to tell what I want in there, like the logistics allow you to request. Adding the red X to define amounts would help restrict what the bots can put in them.

[slpwnd]

This has been brought up multiple times already (https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2680 https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2433 https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2549 and maybe more). We talked about this and so far we like the solution proposed by @immibis I believe (correct me if I am wrong).

The change would be:

• Provider chest is renamed to active provider chest and it still behaves the same.
• New kind of chest called passive provider chest would be added. This chest works the same
  as active provider chest, but with the difference that logistic bots don't carry items from this one to storage chests.
• Passive Provider and Storage would be at the green science pack level tier and Active Provider and Requesters on the blue science pack tier.

This should result in:

• Storage chest can be built for deconstruction bots without the blue research.
• Full fledged logistic system still requires blue science packs.
• There are more ways to arrange the logistic system. For instance passive provider chests can be used for limiting logistic robots work for very active inputs (chests that hold iron / copper plates).

The downside is addition of a new entity (passive provider chest) and slight complication of the system.

[syneris]

What would be the benefits of using an active provider chest?

[xng]

What would be the benefits of using an active provider chest?

From how I understand it, active provider chests will get emptied to fill anything (in the lognet) that has space left, while passive providers will only fill requester chests?

[AlexPhoenix]

What would be the benefits of using an active provider chest?

same as currently using of provider chests, chests which will be taked out of items by bots.

i'd like idea with passive provider chest, cuz it will allow me to build good layout of sorting items(and then limit them).

while passive providers will only fill requester chests?

yes, bots will take items from passive only for complete requests(player or chests)

[Zourin]

Wouldn't the straight solution be a steel chest?

eg, Insert goods into the steel chest as you please, then have a smart inserter set to move those items into a provider chest if there is demand in the logistic network for it. You don't even need a smart chest, just a dumb one will do. Use the Limiter to control how much is buffered.

[AlexPhoenix]

Wouldn't the straight solution be a steel chest?

eg, Insert goods into the steel chest as you please, then have a smart inserter set to move those items into a provider chest if there is demand in the logistic network for it. You don't even need a smart chest, just a dumb one will do. Use the Limiter to control how much is buffered.

you cannot request from some sources by this way.

with just storage and provider chests you cannot limit to use chests only for factory output(and storage at place).
storage chests can be filled with something else(especially if you deconstruct, or have at least one provider chest).
provider chests are always empty(if other place exists), so there is very much unneeded work for bots and player.

[syneris]

I still don't see why I would want to use active chests. Why not just use only passive chests? Why would I want to have provider chests send to a storage chest instead of going directly to a requester chest or construction bot?

[ssilk]

Because that is very practical if you want to make a buffer. Fill in what you want, output what you need. There are about half a dozen of different usages for that.

[CherryKiss]

eh, I'd only use passive chests in such a setup myself. I don't need things moved first to a storage chest. The large size of chests is more than enough of a buffer without having to use additional chests or if you need more, use another provider at the source!

Those crazy bots just go filling storage chests with all manner of junk, until they are packed. Storage chests are messy, especially when you're a little OCD about your factory setup as I am