Friday Facts #186 - Marathon testing

[hoho]

However, a good practice is too make frequent builds (I think to Agile Manifesto). So, why don't you give us some kind of Steam Beta Code in the forum, with a big warning : "These builds will crash or corrupt your save". So we could access some staging builds and satisfy our thirst We definitely want to be yours beta/alpha testers , it's ok if the game crash or if you corrupt our save (we would have been warned).

Making those releases would still take a bit of effort and people *will* report bugs from those releases on forums, no matter how many disclaimers and warnings you put up. In addition, it'll make lives harder for modders as if a new release is in the "alpha" state, they'll either get people whining about lacking updates or people staying on the stable branch whining when the modder decides to move over to the new version.

[Vinnie_NL]

A word of encouragement for the devs.

Every post complaining about the progress of this release is a fan who really really likes your game!

In fact I have a theory.
The increase in complaints is caused by "factorio withdrawal". A lot of us are trying really hard NOT to play your game so we are fresh and eager for a binge come 0.15. The problem is your game is too good, so not playing it makes us cranky.

I just started a new game yesterday. I'm not putting any pressure on it. I'll quit it when 0.15 arrives. Boy do I feel better for it
...

This really makes sense. I stopped playing a few months ago, because of the nearing release so better spend my available time then and do something else now (house cleaning ?)
But on 9 April I couldn't resist anymore so started a new game. I thought it would be good to start a new game just before 0.15 because I would have forgotten how to play efficiently, like optimal ratios and designs. So in order to reinvent the wheel at 0.15 I could do it now and get a better start when 0.15 finally hits. Also it was my birthday that day, so I should be doing just what I want, also if that is playing Factorio. I didn't play later that week, because I had other stuff to do.

Yesterday evening @ 20:00: I can expand my factory now and still go to bed around 0:00 so I feel fresh next morning. I ended up playing until 4. But I feel great!

[waclaw]

hello


I will write for you what this game will not be so popular as minecraft...
It is very easy



The minecraft update was even daily, several times a week or minimum once.
People were playing every version and they were curious, the developer was updating the update by literally correcting the bunnies and adding very little novices.
In this strength was the minecraft, the game was very frequent and new users and copies were spread like fresh buns
People played because it was not bore, factorio bore when we are waiting for update...


No patch, bug tracker, it eliminates the game from being in the first position. I can talk too, and do nothing.
Or something will move in this topic or the game will stay on the same level and will not develop.

[Ingress]

And this happens to me all the time.

[Shaymes]

if you dont want to tell us the release date of 0.15 maaaaye tell us the release date of 0.16

[waclaw]

look, you have https://www.factorio.com/download/experimental why is nothing?


Make a game log in via steam, and put experimental beta, prealpha, super alpha, hiper super pre alpha to this folder.
Giving you once a week update, you will find a lot of new customers so and money

Once in a while the stable version with the next number is even every few months, between your stable put super pre ultra beta. And put bugtracker even on github,
Treasury of human tests, people are irreplaceable. The shoes can be tested in automated machine. Do you do not have money for the testers, give up pre alpha super hyper beta.

We will all be happy to test it for free

[Speadge]

WTF....
See what u did by letting us wait? u drive people crazy

[Vinnie_NL]

hello

I will write for you what this game will not be so popular as minecraft...
It is very easy

The minecraft update was even daily, several times a week or minimum once.
People were playing every version and they were curious, the developer was updating the update by literally correcting the bunnies and adding very little novices.
In this strength was the minecraft, the game was very frequent and new users and copies were spread like fresh buns
People played because it was not bore, factorio bore when we are waiting for update...

No patch, bug tracker, it eliminates the game from being in the first position. I can talk too, and do nothing.
Or something will move in this topic or the game will stay on the same level and will not develop.

No, Minecraft became more popular because it was so accessible so every 13 year old could play it, and all the youtube gamers started streaming their gameplay for those 13 year olds.
Factorio is on a different complexity level, so it will never be as popular. Aiming for first place would be pointless. Instead, I think Factorio has a very loyal fanbase already, just look at the mods and the created youtube content. More frequent updates means more workload for the devs but that has been explained already by in one of the FFF's and on the forum.

[brunzenstein]

WTF....
See what u did by letting us wait? u drive people crazy

LOL:-)

[Ingolifs]

hello


I will write for you what this game will not be so popular as minecraft...
It is very easy



The minecraft update was even daily, several times a week or minimum once.
People were playing every version and they were curious, the developer was updating the update by literally correcting the bunnies and adding very little novices.
In this strength was the minecraft, the game was very frequent and new users and copies were spread like fresh buns
People played because it was not bore, factorio bore when we are waiting for update...


No patch, bug tracker, it eliminates the game from being in the first position. I can talk too, and do nothing.
Or something will move in this topic or the game will stay on the same level and will not develop.

Minecraft was initially able to update like this because it was a very simple game with simple mechanics. You'll find that with any game in the very early bare-bones stages, that adding new features comes easy and that a surprising amount of stuff gets done.
However, every new feature you add makes the game more complicated, and increases the number of features that can break whenever a new feature is added. (In a more mathematical sense, implementing n features requires you to make something of the order of n^2 compatibility tests). If you notice, minecraft is now very complicated, especially around the function of pistons and redstone and such. I'd hate to be the one testing for edgecases whenever a new addition to that game logic occurs.

As has already been pointed out, factorio is also very complicated. This coming update is a big one because it changes a lot of things, and every change requires exhaustive testing to make sure not only that it works, but that it improves the gameplay. Also, some people have invested over 500+ hours into their megabases. Do you really expect them to want to change versions every week where one of any number of changes could completely mess up their base?

Game development is harder than you think, the developers aren't being lazy or hypocritical or whatever. Sit back, wait patiently, and stop being so entitled.

[XGhozt]

I just wanted to chime in here.

Firstly, awesome job and congrats to the devs! The game is looking great!

I see a lot of people here posting about how long it's taken to release, and other defending the hard working developers. I thought maybe I had another perspective here or maybe I'm missing something. The game is in "Early Access" with a release branch AND an "experimental" branch. So, by that alone as a customer I know that I'm buying something that isn't finished. And to install the experimental version is whole other process that a lot of people probably don't even know about. Buy installing it with that tag we've already got a pretty specific set of expectations (at least I do).

That said, (I'm a developer) I know how long things can take and how complicated it can get. I know that feeling of "I'm almost done" and spending 30 hours to get to 99% done and then that last 1% takes another 10 hours. I also know it's easy to keep pushing things off until it's perfect, even though that may never be attainable (mostly to the general public). When we've got "Early Access" AND "experimental" tagged onto the release, I can tell you that no one is expecting perfection here. I think we're all just really excited to play with all these cool things the devs are dangling in front of us.

I have no problem waiting, but I also have no problem seeing all the bugs and rebuilding my base every time a new patch is out (500 hours or not). If we can keep playing the same map (I've seen talks about the migration being a thing), then that's fine. It's our choice to not install the experimental build. Previous versions had their own set of bugs and problems and it only made people love the game more. The community felt involved and a part of the process. That's why many of us are still here. Seeing an update come out every week or so was very exciting. Even if it was full of bugs, we couldn't wait to poke around.

Think back to the whole multiplayer updates. I played with a friend when it was still P2P. It was horrible. We both bitched about it for the FIFTY HOURS we spent playing through it even with all the lag. When the multiplayer updates came in, the played it that day, another 50 hours followed just amazed at how great it was now.

I hope this makes sense, I'm not trying to start any big argument here. I doubt I'm alone in my thinking and I just though I'd give it a try. Again, the game is looking great and we're all very excited to jump back into it and see all the new features!

[Mendel]

Again, please take all the time you need to make 0.15. And please take all of that time right now and release the d**n thing already, won´t ya?

[ratchetfreak]

To everyone who wants a broken build to play with,

Just stop asking for it. History has shown (in other games) that publicly releasing a beta build with bugs is much worse PR than delaying a few more weeks to fix the bugs.

Even when you shout at every opportunity that it's not finished people will still react very negatively to any bug, especially when it causes a save corruption. People remember the bugs more than they remember the wait (up to a point).

The only exception is doing a closed beta due to the NDA involved and the process of getting the game being different.

[Floaf]

Well, since you have to actively enable the beta version, it is kind of semi closed already.
I get that the main reason not to release it is that it is still has bugs they not had time to fix yet.
But we are getting there sooooon...

[Proxy]

hello

I will write for you what this game will not be so popular as minecraft...
It is very easy

The minecraft update was even daily, several times a week or minimum once.
People were playing every version and they were curious, the developer was updating the update by literally correcting the bunnies and adding very little novices.
In this strength was the minecraft, the game was very frequent and new users and copies were spread like fresh buns
People played because it was not bore, factorio bore when we are waiting for update...

No patch, bug tracker, it eliminates the game from being in the first position. I can talk too, and do nothing.
Or something will move in this topic or the game will stay on the same level and will not develop.

No, Minecraft became more popular because it was so accessible so every 13 year old could play it, and all the youtube gamers started streaming their gameplay for those 13 year olds.
Factorio is on a different complexity level, so it will never be as popular. Aiming for first place would be pointless. Instead, I think Factorio has a very loyal fanbase already, just look at the mods and the created youtube content. More frequent updates means more workload for the devs but that has been explained already by in one of the FFF's and on the forum.

Factorio is already quite popular... one of the highest rated games on Steam.
and the fanbase is more mature than MC's... except Modding, both MC's and Factorio's Modding cummunities are quite complex and seem similar.
And to be honest, coming up with things in MMC is easier than in Factorio because when you do something in Factorio, someone else already did it but better and more efficent.

[nice3333333333]

Man factorio is gonna be just ten times greater with the new research and liquid transportation options! I can't wait, but please take your time!

[Deadly-Bagel]

Speak for yourself, blueprinting (and hopefully ghosting...?) from the map is going to be ridiculously awesome. Even just being able to zoom in and see stuff.

[brunzenstein]

Any bets on this date for a 0.15 release?
I think it's possible. I feel it in my guts....

[HammerPiano]

Any bets on this date for a 0.15 release?
I think it's possible. I feel it in my guts....

Hmm maybe next Monday/Tuesday?
We just need to wait to Friday for the FFF and see what will happen

[factoriouzr]

Speak for yourself, blueprinting (and hopefully ghosting...?) from the map is going to be ridiculously awesome. Even just being able to zoom in and see stuff.

Agreed.

Though it's very disappointing there wasn't a release yesterday. An update from the devs would be great at the very least so we don't have to wait for Friday with no release again.