Development and Discussion

[qwerter96]

@nagapito
well smelting gives you some tool to spread the load of the most used metals to different ores through the alloying step at the end, where you can mix different ingots to produce an alloy of the main metal. So it's a bit about clever mixing and spreading the load over different ores.

Crazy idea... infinite mining ore also returns waste water?

Seems that it might be possible, since Bobs water pump was outputing water and stone

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=45001&p=274677#p274634

I actually like the idea, have to look into it over the next few days

Alternative to waste water, you could have the infinite ores yield a new slag/pebble (Sulfuric slag, nitric pebble, w/e) in addition to the ore. This would then have to be run through a washing plant to yield the waste water and maybe slag.

MIning: Infinite Saph + Sulf Acid --> Saphirite and Sulfuric Pebbles

Wash: Sulf Pebbles + Steam/Water --> Sulf Waste Water + Slag

Either way, I've always played with infinite ores disabled but now I need to start a new game with them. This looks fun.

Hey Angel, do you have any updates on which (if any) of these you're going to include in the next infinite ores update? (And when said update can be expected to come out?)

[npstr]

Ahoi,

enjoying the mods so far.
I installed them by looking at the threads in this corner of the forum and then following the links to mods.factorio.com. That way I missed a few, for example the Angel's Addons thread doesn't mention the Warehouses addon. I think updating the threads would help users like me looking the full package and being too dumb to search

[nagapito]

Ahoi,

enjoying the mods so far.
I installed them by looking at the threads in this corner of the forum and then following the links to mods.factorio.com. That way I missed a few, for example the Angel's Addons thread doesn't mention the Warehouses addon. I think updating the threads would help users like me looking the full package and being too dumb to search

On the mod portal, click on the developer name of the mod and it will list all the mods from that developer. Not perfect but better then nothing

[PiggyWhiskey]

You can search by Mod Author as well.

[daggertx]

Howdy!

I am new to Angels and have a question. I have played vanilla and am going to slowly work in some mods to add complexity. Right now I only have Angels Refining, Angels Infinite Ores, Bobs Adjustable Inserters, Bobs Mining (which adds the better miners/research), and I think Bobs Library (which is required). So I am still working with the default ores of which Angels Refining changes to the 4 new ones you have to crush or sort or whatever.

I have watched some .15 lets plays on Youtube (mostly arumba and steejo) and with the two main ores you can crush/sort them and they give like 2 iron/1 copper or 2 copper/1 iron. But those usually have the full suit of angel's/bobs of course, but on vanilla the recipes are different. Is this normal or is my game messed up? I do have a bunch of quality of life mods installed like picker, warehousing and some others.

For instance here is what I have:

Crusher 2 saphrite gives 2 crushed saphrite
Sorter 4 crushed saphrite gives 1 Ironore, 1 Iron nugget, 2 Iron Pebbles, and 1 Slag

and on down the line. I am not complaining I just want to verify if my game is correct and that is it. Thank you!!

[nagapito]

Howdy!

I am new to Angels and have a question. I have played vanilla and am going to slowly work in some mods to add complexity. Right now I only have Angels Refining, Angels Infinite Ores, Bobs Adjustable Inserters, Bobs Mining (which adds the better miners/research), and I think Bobs Library (which is required). So I am still working with the default ores of which Angels Refining changes to the 4 new ones you have to crush or sort or whatever.

I have watched some .15 lets plays on Youtube (mostly arumba and steejo) and with the two main ores you can crush/sort them and they give like 2 iron/1 copper or 2 copper/1 iron. But those usually have the full suit of angel's/bobs of course, but on vanilla the recipes are different. Is this normal or is my game messed up? I do have a bunch of quality of life mods installed like picker, warehousing and some others.

For instance here is what I have:

Crusher 2 saphrite gives 2 crushed saphrite
Sorter 4 crushed saphrite gives 1 Ironore, 1 Iron nugget, 2 Iron Pebbles, and 1 Slag

and on down the line. I am not complaining I just want to verify if my game is correct and that is it. Thank you!!

The derp is strong on Arumba/Steejo campaign!

I encourage you to watch Arumba rocket per patreon, still derpy but less... Even if its 0.14, not much had changed, at least early game.

And yes, without the Bobs ores and bobs plates, the ore processing is different, adapted for vanilla ores. But, if you go with bobs ores and plates, might as well go with full suit!
And then... yes, Rocket per Patreon will be a better guidance

[daggertx]

The derp is strong on Arumba/Steejo campaign!

I encourage you to watch Arumba rocket per patreon, still derpy but less... Even if its 0.14, not much had changed, at least early game.

And yes, without the Bobs ores and bobs plates, the ore processing is different, adapted for vanilla ores. But, if you go with bobs ores and plates, might as well go with full suit!
And then... yes, Rocket per Patreon will be a better guidance

Okay thanks I will check it out. I saw the playlist for it so I will queue it up and let it run.

I know the focus is not on vanilla from what I read but I do have some yield questions if its okay. Is any of the below even worth it (other than the fun factor) and does it actually increase yield? I am not sure...and maybe its a limitation of using this without Bobs Plates and stuff. Which is fine, just curious. The math hurts

Code: Select all

**You can eventually do the below:**

Crusher 	2 saphrite 			GIVES 2 crushed saphrite 
Flotation 	2 crushed saphrite 	GIVES 2 saphrite chunks
Sorter		6 saphrite chunks 	GIVES 2 Iron ORE, 1 Iron nugget, 4 Iron Pebbles, 1 Slag
then you can sort the pebbles/nuggets to get some more iron ore (see below) or send them to the smelters (also see below) 
Sorter		4 Iron Pebble/1 Iron nugget GIVES 	4 Iron Ore
OR
Furnace 4 pebbles to 2 Plate
Furnace 2 nuggets to 3 plate

***Now it gets crazy:***
 
Crusher 	2 saphrite 					GIVES 2 crushed saphrite
Flotation 	2 crushed saphrite 			GIVES 2 saphrite chunkse
Leeching 	2 saphrite chunks 			GIVES 2 saphrite crystals
Sorter		8 saphrite crystals 		GIVES 4 Iron Ore, I Iron nugget, 4 Iron Pebble, 1 Slag
then you can sort the pebbles/nuggets to get some more iron ore (see below) or send them to the smelters (also see below) 
Sorter		4 Iron Pebble/1 Iron nugget GIVES 	4 Iron Ore
OR
Furnace 4 pebbles to 2 Plate
Furnace 2 nuggets to 3 plate

****I think the below Joker level of insanity is possible, but as above is it worth it ?****
 
crusher 	2 saphrite 						GIVES 2 crushed saphrite 
flotation 	2 crushed saphrite 				GIVES 2 saphrite chunks
leeching plant	2 saphrite chunks 			GIVES 2 saphrite crystals
ore refinery	4 saphrite crystals 		GIVES 4 purified saphrite
Sorter		9 purified saphrite 			GIVES 4 Iron Ore, 2 Iron nugget, 1 Iron Pebble, 1 IRON Slag
Sorter		1 Miniral/3 Pebbles/1 Iron Slag	GIVES 3 Iron Ore (this requires some more steps)
Crusher 	2 Iron Ore						GIVES 4 Iron Pebbles
Sorter		4 Iron Pebble/1 Iron nugget 	GIVES 4 Iron Ore
send the leftovers to the Furnaces?

[Diedel]

Neat, the electric boiler works now, as advertised in the .12 patch notes, so at least no longer dragging coal out to every steam cracker, no i only need a electric blast furnace to be full electric.

[Shenpen]

The derp is strong on Arumba/Steejo campaign!

I encourage you to watch Arumba rocket per patreon, still derpy but less... Even if its 0.14, not much had changed, at least early game.

Nilaus´ different campaigns are quite good if you want competent playthroughs of BobsAngels. Nilaus is actually a pro in logistics and it shows in the way he manages the challenges of factorio. If you want to see the "city-block" method in use, you need to check out his series.

[undarl]

I know the focus is not on vanilla from what I read but I do have some yield questions if its okay. Is any of the below even worth it (other than the fun factor) and does it actually increase yield? I am not sure...and maybe its a limitation of using this without Bobs Plates and stuff. Which is fine, just curious. The math hurts

I actually run Angel's Infinite Ores and Refining without Bob's Plates, so I can try to speak to this. I ran the math a while ago, and came to the following conclusions:

• Saphirite is worth crushing, floating, and leaching before sorting it. You can re-sort the resulting nuggets and pellets for iron ore as well and the ratios work out nicely. Each step adds some saph ore-to-iron ore efficiency.
• Stiratite is worth crushing and floating before sorting. While the leaching step adds some theoretical material efficiency, it also skews the ratios for the re-sorting step.

The final refining step in both cases skewed ratios without adding significant additional efficiency.

I don't remember my exact conclusions regarding jivolite or crotinnium, but I think the short version was "strange ratios that are not worth the trouble unless I'm out of saph or stir".

[daggertx]

Thanks for the reply!

I am starting to see it now, it was around 2am and I was tired and starting to overthink it....thats my excuse.

[Mobius1]

Angel, I might have missed something but Rocket Fuel is requiring 5 fluids after bob updated his mods, more specifically bobrevamp mod, so rocket fuel is requiring 5 inputs:

Image

Looking at that screen we could just merge Hydrazine (bob's) with Hydrazine Gas as they're the same molecule, the Dinitrogen Tetroxide (N2O4) from bob's could replace Nitric acid? Since to make Nitric Acid you require NO2 + water and the N2O4 you also require the NO2, but an inorganic acid to make rocket fuel doesn't seem right, it would still be used on the refining process of Rubyte but just not on the rocket fuel recipe.
What you think about it?

[aklesey1]

Where is my 5-input and 5-output chemical plant?

[septemberWaves]

Where is my 5-input and 5-output chemical plant?

This is a compatibility issue, not a feature. Based on how long it usually takes mod makers to fix things like that I'd assume it'll be fixed relatively soon (unless there's something really weird and complicated happening in the code to cause this but I doubt that).

[Arch666Angel]

Where is my 5-input and 5-output chemical plant?

This is a compatibility issue, not a feature. Based on how long it usually takes mod makers to fix things like that I'd assume it'll be fixed relatively soon (unless there's something really weird and complicated happening in the code to cause this but I doubt that).

The question is more like what to keep and what to override.

[Jackalope_Gaming]

Thanks for the reply!

I am starting to see it now, it was around 2am and I was tired and starting to overthink it....thats my excuse.

Yeah, I blame tiredness on my first go through Vanilla Angels Refining and going "Uh, why is there a recipe to crush iron ore into pebbles and then a recipe to combine pebbles back into ore?"

If you want to see the ratios better I'd recommend Helmod. It can take a little getting used to and normally it's really awkward to use with something that has multiple outputs, but in this case Helmod handles vanilla Angels quite well. Start off with the product you want then work your way backwards.

[septemberWaves]

The question is more like what to keep and what to override.

I would suggest keeping dinitrogen tetroxide, dimethylhydrazine (which is a rocket fuel used in conjunction with N2O4), and one of the hydrazines (as hydrazine is used for maneuvering thrusters; I'd say probably keep your one since it's used in your dimethylhydrazine).

[nagapito]

The question is more like what to keep and what to override.

I would suggest keeping dinitrogen tetroxide, dimethylhydrazine (which is a rocket fuel used in conjunction with N2O4), and one of the hydrazines (as hydrazine is used for maneuvering thrusters; I'd say probably keep your one since it's used in your dimethylhydrazine).

Or wait because bobs as already suggested that this will change again.

Until then, rollback bob revamp to the version that supports angels petrochem

[Arch666Angel]

@undarl @Jackalope @daggertx
My question would be: Is it interesting to play and figure out and is it better or worse than the old implementation.

[undarl]

@undarl @Jackalope @daggertx
My question would be: Is it interesting to play and figure out and is it better or worse than the old implementation.

I really enjoy the early-game synergies provided by the ore crushers, specifically the inclusion of stone as a useful byproduct/looming problem from mining and the ability to build game-start bootstrap mining and smelting around the crushers using BurnerLeech to cross-feed everything. I also had a good time figuring out ratios and efficiencies for the later processing steps.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the old implementation". If you've made any notable changes since 0.15 dropped then I haven't had a chance to play with them yet -- I've mostly either been in modding-testing cycles or busy elsewhere since then. If it's earlier than that, I may be too new to answer. I've only been playing Factorio for 3 months or so, and using Refining for maybe the latter half of that.