Development and Discussion

[Twsted]

ok thanks,

Also what is this Unknown ore thing on the left. Many things in the mod says unknown.
.

[septemberWaves]

That is jivolite ore. You should be able to mine it directly from the ground, but from what you've already posted in various threads I get the feeling your set of mods is so full of bugs that I can't be sure where you'd obtain jivolite ore, or why it's listed as an unknown.

[Twsted]

The only ores that spawn are the following.
Copper, Iron, Coal, Aluminium, Zinc, Cobalt, Silver, Gold, Titanium, Nickle, Sulfur, Stone, Tin, Silicon, (yuoki's N4 and F7 ores), Uranium, and Tungsten.

What does not spawn are:
Jivolite, Bobmonium, Saphirite, Rubbyte and Crontinium.

The only mods that actual spawn ANY ores I have installed are Angel's mods (no infinite mods) - Bob's mods and Yuoki.
Everything else are just machine and little addons here and there but not suppose to overhaul the ore generation.
Only the ones listed above (that I know of ) are installed for that.

[Mobius1]

The only ores that spawn are the following.
Copper, Iron, Coal, Aluminium, Zinc, Cobalt, Silver, Gold, Titanium, Nickle, Sulfur, Stone, Tin, Silicon, (yuoki's N4 and F7 ores), Uranium, and Tungsten.

What does not spawn are:
Jivolite, Bobmonium, Saphirite, Rubbyte and Crontinium.

The only mods that actual spawn ANY ores I have installed are Angel's mods (no infinite mods) - Bob's mods and Yuoki.
Everything else are just machine and little addons here and there but not suppose to overhaul the ore generation.
Only the ones listed above (that I know of ) are installed for that.

If you don't have Angel's Infinite Ores mod installed you won't be able to access the 6 ores that all angel's mods requires. You don't need to play with infinite ore patches, but the ores mod you need to allow the proper work of mettalurgy, petrochemical and refining mods.

[Twsted]

If you don't have Angel's Infinite Ores mod installed you won't be able to access the 6 ores that all angel's mods requires. You don't need to play with infinite ore patches, but the ores mod you need to allow the proper work of mettalurgy, petrochemical and refining mods.

Aaah thank you, I will try that out. thank you so much for the info.

[adamcirillo]

also there is no way to get the advanced gas refinery mk4 I see it in the item picker when setting filters but no research gives it to me

[septemberWaves]

also there is no way to get the advanced gas refinery mk4 I see it in the item picker when setting filters but no research gives it to me

It might not be implemented yet, the same way you can find platinum stuff and the strand casting oven in some inventory screens but there's no way to obtain them yet.

[cpy]

Why don't you use Bob's gas barreling? Where you use barrels for liquids, platics containers for corrosive liquids to steel and fuel and gas cyllinders for gasses. It kinda gave meaning to bobs air pumps.

Thermal water springs seems to get depleted way too fast and are not very numerous by default compared to oil.

[alficles]

I think HF production problematically low. The problem really rears its head when you turn on fluids for infinite ores. It currently takes 10 HF to produce 10 jivolite ore. That 10 ore produces 250 fluoric waste water when floated, which makes 25 HF for a net of 15 HF. But you have to finish the chain and leech that 10 for 25 HF. This puts you 10 HF in the hole... the 10 you used to mine it in the first place.

The only other source is cracking Acid Gas. But you can't get Acid Gas anywhere but directly from Oil and NG. To get the aforementioned 10 HF, you need 50 Acid Gas, which requires 250 Raw Gas, which requires either 1250 multiphase oil or a third that much natural gas. Either way, it's a lot of petroleum for a tiny amount of HF. This is a nice side benefit, but can't be the main source.

The other way to get HF is mineral sludge. It takes 50 sludge for 1 HF. That's 25 crushed stone per HF. This isn't really a reasonable source either. You can get sludge from thermal water, though, so a 100 thermal/sec well (seems to be about what I see on my map) will provide 2 HF/s. This is far, far less than what a reasonable mining system will require. It also produces a lot of uranium as well. You'll wind up blocked on the output of uranium eventually.

In addition to this, you need 30 HF / 24 W you process. You don't need a lot of Tungston, but this does start to add up.

[fractalman]

I think HF production problematically low. The problem really rears its head when you turn on fluids for infinite ores. It currently takes 10 HF to produce 10 jivolite ore. That 10 ore produces 250 fluoric waste water when floated, which makes 25 HF for a net of 15 HF. But you have to finish the chain and leech that 10 for 25 HF. This puts you 10 HF in the hole... the 10 you used to mine it in the first place.

The only other source is cracking Acid Gas. But you can't get Acid Gas anywhere but directly from Oil and NG. To get the aforementioned 10 HF, you need 50 Acid Gas, which requires 250 Raw Gas, which requires either 1250 multiphase oil or a third that much natural gas. Either way, it's a lot of petroleum for a tiny amount of HF. This is a nice side benefit, but can't be the main source.

The other way to get HF is mineral sludge. It takes 50 sludge for 1 HF. That's 25 crushed stone per HF. This isn't really a reasonable source either. You can get sludge from thermal water, though, so a 100 thermal/sec well (seems to be about what I see on my map) will provide 2 HF/s. This is far, far less than what a reasonable mining system will require. It also produces a lot of uranium as well. You'll wind up blocked on the output of uranium eventually.

In addition to this, you need 30 HF / 24 W you process. You don't need a lot of Tungston, but this does start to add up.

couple things with your analysis:
1. you don't usually NEED to perform the next step in refining it. Just sort it as is unless you're doing pure ore sorting, and consider using slag crystalization as an alternative source of said pure ores.
2. Actually you might need MORE HF to mine the ore once the % runs low. Productivity modules will certainly help alleviate this.
3. actually it takes more than 50 sludge per HF because it's a rather low %chance to get one. It's more like 250 or 500 IIRC.
4. Uranium's actually pretty easy to use up if you *really* need to use it up.
5. Don't use crushed stone as a primary source of mineral sludge. Make slag via "dirt water electrolysis" and use that, or use thermal water.
6. The fact that high-tier tungsten refining requires HF indeed does not mesh well with infinite ores+acid required is noted...however, you can just use a lower tier refining method, like the one from Bob's. (unless all methods end up requiring it? I might be getting tungsten confused with a different material. )

[alficles]

Actually you might need MORE HF to mine the ore once the % runs low. Productivity modules will certainly help alleviate this.

The ore says it's HF per ore. The ratio of HF in to ore out shouldn't change right? Still, productivity always helps in everything.

actually it takes more than 50 sludge per HF because it's a rather low %chance to get one. It's more like 250 or 500 IIRC.

10% chance per 50 sludge for 1 fluorite ore. 500 sludge makes an average of one fluorite, which makes 10 HF, which mines 10 jivo, which means 50 sludge to 1 jivo.

Uranium's actually pretty easy to use up if you *really* need to use it up.

Kaboom! Yeah, I know. But it's still not automated.

Don't use crushed stone as a primary source of mineral sludge. Make slag via "dirt water electrolysis" and use that, or use thermal water.

I've considered that. I might wind up doing that. It feels a bit unintended, though. I mean, yes, you can technically replace the entire mining process with the processing of sludge from slag you get from dirt. But it doesn't feel like the right way to do it. It also requires a rather large number of processors.

Just sort it as is unless you're doing pure ore sorting, and consider using slag crystalization as an alternative source of said pure ores.

And this is basically the issue. Once you hit a certain scale, you need to stop handling byproducts by hand. Managing them by hand is quite feasible at a lower scale, which makes direct ore-sorting work fine. But there's a reason the space- and energy-intensive direct ore production methods exist. That production line produces no unusable side effects at any measurable scale. Sorting and crystalizing for fluorite both produce relatively low-use ores that cannot be disposed of in an automatic way. Filling warehouses and shooting them is kinda ok early on, but not ok later.

[solntcev]

Don't use crushed stone as a primary source of mineral sludge. Make slag via "dirt water electrolysis" and use that, or use thermal water.

I've considered that. I might wind up doing that. It feels a bit unintended, though. I mean, yes, you can technically replace the entire mining process with the processing of sludge from slag you get from dirt. But it doesn't feel like the right way to do it. It also requires a rather large number of processors.

Mineral Slurry can also be obtained from Nodules, which infinitely produced from mud water. You just don't need to vent gases from electrolysis.

[alficles]

And apparently I missed re-writing the last comment when the forum ate my reply...

Furthermore, the issue isn't that HF isn't available. It's that it's very significantly less available than the other acids, and it's got a very high-consumption use. This was fine when tungsten processing was the primary sink for HF. But now, infinite jivo mining is a massive sink. The productions were clearly balanced with the previous consumptions in mind. Consumption has gone up and I think we need a dedicated way to produce HF, just like we have with every other acid. The other acids are all produceable with no unmanageable side effects (except NaOH, which desperately, desperately requires an automatic use). As a result, there's a weird feeling that Jivolite ore is somehow "more difficult" than all the others, when it's really just as useful. (And required for iron!)

There should be an HF production path. The simplest would be a fluorite ore direct combination in the sorter. This should use jivolite chunks and a catalyst (a crystal catalyst might be appropriate here, and a bit unique), plus probably another chunk type or two.

Also.. interesting note on the nodules.

[Metamorpher]

Is there a light way to get Nitric Acid (without green and red catalysts)? Please, can someone add some screenshots from his own setup to get Nitric Acid?

[buggy123]

I agree entirely that Fluorite needs to be more accessible, I built this monstrosity as a mid-game source and it consumes 150MW and produces, at best, 1-2 Fluorite per second.

the monstrosity

[Arch666Angel]

Smelting --0.3.4
-removed advanced metallurgy techs
-added strand casting tech
-added strand casting machine
-added pulver metallurgy tech
-added recipes for bob bronze, brass, electrum, invar, nitinol, cobalt-steel
-added overrides for bobs smelting techs
-added tier 2 strand casting (increased speed)
-added cooling tower
-added coolant tech

Petrochem --0.5.11
-added electric boiler
-fixed animation on small gas refinery

Refining --0.7.17
-script update

[TheBreadbird]

Hey Angel, have you ever thought about making a way to get stonebricks w/o using stone? Like with concrete you usually need stone but you have one recipe that doesn't need any stone. Would love to have the same with Bricks. Or maybe some alternative way of generating stone/ crushed stone. Maybe just the ability to crush any of the basic ores into crushed stone or something like that.

In my current game im running really short of stone because im not using enough of the products but I cant use the products until I get a reliable source of stone besides regular refining.

Thanks for the mods btw. make the game much more enjoyable

[npuldon]

Angel,

Do you have a page where you have the up to date changelog for ALL of your mods? Even when I go to the individual mod pages on the forum the change logs don't seem to be up to date (compared to the version I currently see in the mods portal) so I am wondering if there is another page where you keep these records. Perhaps you update particular mods as needed with other mod updates but you don't add or remove feature and so you don't actually record anything in the their changelog? I see that you have a changelog for your mods on the mod portal but the current version doesn't match the log so I am curious.

Thanks for your help and your great mods!

[Arch666Angel]

Angel,

Do you have a page where you have the up to date changelog for ALL of your mods? Even when I go to the individual mod pages on the forum the change logs don't seem to be up to date (compared to the version I currently see in the mods portal) so I am wondering if there is another page where you keep these records. Perhaps you update particular mods as needed with other mod updates but you don't add or remove feature and so you don't actually record anything in the their changelog? I see that you have a changelog for your mods on the mod portal but the current version doesn't match the log so I am curious.

Thanks for your help and your great mods!

I keep a changelog for each mod in the actual archive you download from the portal, I try to keep the changelogs up to date on the portal, everything else might not be always up to date, the forum thread are for example only update from time to time. If there is no changelog for one version, then it's just an error I fixed because of a non working version or something minor, which is all in the code and wont change what the mod looks ingame.

[aklesey1]

Coolant cleaning recipes with coal and ceramic filters not working - i'm putting used coolant into input, injecting coal filter into filtration unit and....... nothing.... machine not working.... temperature of coolant is 299.45 its more then 295 in recipe condition

Ouch.... i don't know why but temperature of coolant can decrease on the way to filtration unit... and it can occur accidentally and at any time, even I don't know, may be its no safety to transport coolant in pipes? May be i need to transport it by barrels