More stuck trains 0.15.28

[d3x0r]

I have 2 trains total - both on screen; signals are green just ahead... the train that's stopped on the left was stopped much futher back for a while - if I manually walk it past the current intersection it is able to go. I moved the right train further down the track and it has no issues... At first though it was totally not stuck until I added a chain signal down the line. The trains are on two totally differently colored segments; and one does not lead into the other. The left train is trying to just go north on the right hand track, the inner track is an opposing direction that the other train is on... they cross over each other but for the most part the trains are never on the same bend.






https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B812E ... 3FqWkdzUms (trainstraintrains-deadlock.zip)
I have quite a few mods installed....
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B812E ... VVWVG9lbFE (trainstraintrains-modpack.zip)

I've sprinkled more signals all over and it hasn't helped. and I have none that are 'on the wrong side' because there's no space between the tracks to put signals the wrong way. (if there is enough like a couple loops that I guess I could; they still aren't backwards)

[TruePikachu]

Based on what I can actually see in the screenshots (which should be zoomed further in), there should be no reason for the upper-left visible signal to be showing clear; your mods are likely responsible for at least part of this.

Untitled.png (286.03 KiB) Viewed 6905 times

The pink line I drew indicates a single block section; since there are no signals, there is nothing that splits up the block. However, two entry signals for the block (as indicated with arrows) are showing different aspects, when they should be the same in this case.

EDIT: Mod list from JSON (grepped down):

Code: Select all

      "name": "base",
      "name": "Advanced_Electric",
      "name": "angelsaddons-petrotrain",
      "name": "bigger_slower_trains",
      "name": "bobassembly",
      "name": "bobelectronics",
      "name": "bobgreenhouse",
      "name": "bobinserters",
      "name": "boblibrary",
      "name": "bobpower",
      "name": "ElectricTrain",
      "name": "FusionTrain",
      "name": "HighSpeedTrain",
      "name": "JunkTrain",
      "name": "long-reach",
      "name": "OmegaDrill",
      "name": "RailPowerSystem",
      "name": "Vehicle Wagon",

Another edit: In fact, there appears to be a complete lack of signals in the spots they are required in. Quite likely not a bug.

[Loewchen]

Please provide a vanilla save file were this can be observed.

[d3x0r]

I tried a few different things to make a vanilla version 1) the map editor; very hard to make railways in it. 2) upgrade planner - failed to upgrade rails (after converting the map to a scenario, editing that to add some boxes with standard rails, and then reloading that saved scenario). It can't update rails on blueprint or on the ground.
It's hot possible to lay new track over old track like belts.

The only mod that really would matter would be JunkRails; but I included a download zip of all the mods I was using at the time so one wouldn't have to track each one down and install it.

this video came up today in related videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXr7y02ZG00 Factorio Tutorial: Rail Signalling - Easy Rules for Placing Signals - it says 'just a simple rule, put a chain signal before intersections and lights after) personally; it looks like all the intersections do a good job of segmenting the track without lights; but... I guess I can try that method; though seems kinda silly to use a light after an intersection since it should never stop a train crossing an intersection....

[d3x0r]

The train going north is stopped, on a track, At a light after which it has no way to get to the other track at all. The track from where the train is goes to a dead end.
I did find a spot I can add a light that makes it unlock.
the light just behind the train stopped on the left is triggered because of the left train itself. If I add a signal on the same track further back it is green.
Edit; Okay I guess the train is still technically in the block crossing that track.

DeadlockTrain.jpg (140.33 KiB) Viewed 6834 times

[d3x0r]

Grr not solved.. went back to my regular game, added the signal and the other train is STILL stopped.

Added signals all over and it's STILL stopped. have to extend the track to resemble the reasl one some more.
It was after I added the out loop to the upper right that it started having issues...

[TruePikachu]

Is your most recent screenshot from a fully vanilla game, with no mods enabled? The signals still don't appear to be working as they should (my diagram still holds true).

[d3x0r]

Yes it's vanilla, it is an edited map that I added boxes with rails and trains in.
save file
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B812E ... WpEQUl2UFE

[mrvn]

I tried a few different things to make a vanilla version 1) the map editor; very hard to make railways in it. 2) upgrade planner - failed to upgrade rails (after converting the map to a scenario, editing that to add some boxes with standard rails, and then reloading that saved scenario). It can't update rails on blueprint or on the ground.
It's hot possible to lay new track over old track like belts.

The only mod that really would matter would be JunkRails; but I included a download zip of all the mods I was using at the time so one wouldn't have to track each one down and install it.

this video came up today in related videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXr7y02ZG00 Factorio Tutorial: Rail Signalling - Easy Rules for Placing Signals - it says 'just a simple rule, put a chain signal before intersections and lights after) personally; it looks like all the intersections do a good job of segmenting the track without lights; but... I guess I can try that method; though seems kinda silly to use a light after an intersection since it should never stop a train crossing an intersection....

The point of the signal after the intersection is to clear the intersection and therefore make the chain signals before the intersection go blue/green again.
Without those signals you have to wait for the train to cross the next intersection before the previous intersection clears.

Also a signal after an intersection does stop a train crossing the intersection. Specifically when there is still a train after the signal and the new train wants to go there too. So it's a good idea to put not just one signal after an intersection but, given longer distances, put them at regular intervals. That allows multiple trains to be on a long stretch of rails.

[d3x0r]

southbound train at train stop prevents trains from going through.... why? it has a signal directly after it on a segment before the curved rail that might block the trains going north It has a signal before, after, there's no conflict possible. In my modded game the signal one signal back is blocked too....

Factorio Stopped1.jpg (159.88 KiB) Viewed 6760 times

Vanilla save... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B812E ... WFpNU1iYWs

[Loewchen]

southbound train at train stop prevents trains from going through.... why? it has a signal directly after it on a segment before the curved rail that might block the trains going north It has a signal before, after, there's no conflict

There is a fork right under the locomotive in the station making both track sides one block. NaB.

[d3x0r]

Hmm okay; except both trains are past that.

[Loewchen]

Hmm okay; except both trains are past that.

Past what? The train in the station in the NW is occupying said block and therefore neither of the other trains can even enter it. Additionally the signal after the station has no function as it is within the block unable to separate it as it is bypassed by the fork.

[d3x0r]

The south tain is past the point it could switch, the north train is also past the point it could switch to the track that connects it... they're already into the 'same block' by your assertion..
And the train after the signal stops the train before the next switching track.
I did end up removing that crossover loop and it's a little better so that is certainly the issue but still... the train should have stopped at the ligth before the outside loop if it was that block that was preventing it.

[TruePikachu]

Blocks != segments or sections.

[d3x0r]

Blocks != segments or sections.

it is in my vocabulary; shall I edit and s/blocks/segments/ ?

kinda like it's localization to me not localisation.
but then I had someone correct me that it's response not repsonce in my code.... I mean it the same as ounce or once right?

[TruePikachu]

Blocks are seperated only by signals; if two tracks connect without a signal, they are part of the same block, and if two tracks cross, they are part of the same block. Blocks aren't seperated by junctions or anything, only signals.

Segments have a meaning in the context of Factorio, which is distinctly different than blocks (a block can be composed of one or more segments).

[d3x0r]

Super simple - two rails, crossing each other.
The train going east-west was working fine until I added signals.
OH ya I remember... signals make tracks one directional; so I can't have a double headed train that just goes back and forth, huh?

stoppedTrains..jpg (209.26 KiB) Viewed 6407 times

[5thHorseman]

OH ya I remember... signals make tracks one directional; so I can't have a double headed train that just goes back and forth, huh?

Signals on one side of a track make the track one directional. You can have a double headed train that goes back and forth if you put signals on both sides of the track.

Specifically, place the signals on the white squares opposite the signals you already placed.

[d3x0r]

Oh okay I see why that works