pY HighTech Discussion

TheMegaMan · Post by **TheMegaMan** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:20 pm

I'm having issues with some of the pre-reqs for circuit board 2 production. At the moment I'm trying to make the P-doped silicon for the diodes. To make the P-doped silicon I need to make Zinc Acetate. I've researched the correct tech (Semiconductor Doping) to unlock this item. FNEI tells me that Zinc Acetate is made in the Mixer building, but when I put one of these down the recipe for Zinc Acetate is not there.

I'm having a similar issue with Acetic Acid (which I need to make the Zinc Acetate). It's unlocked with the same tech, and FNEI says that it is made in a Methanol Reactor. When I place the Methanol Reactor the recipe for Acetic Acid is not there.

I tried to see if there was an update to the mod available but I'm running the most current version as far as I know. Is FNEI reporting the wrong buildings for these recipes or is something else going on?

Shorkan · Post by **Shorkan** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:43 am

I found both recipes in the machines so i think you don't have seen that in the buildings you can change from what recipe category you want too see the recipes, in the mixer you see only boron or? You see then only boron because pyfusion category is chosen when you open the building, you need too change above the boron too pyhighttech too see the Zin Acetate recipe, the same with Acectic Acid in the Methanol Reactor.

TheMegaMan · Post by **TheMegaMan** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:41 am

So I went back into my save file to double check I just wasn't being stupid and it looks like the recipes really are missing. I took some screenshots to hopefully show what's going on. I'm new to the site so hopefully I'll get the formatting right.

So I have Semiconductor Doping researched.

Semiconductor Doping

Here are the recipe pages for the Mixer.

Mixer Recipe Pages

Here is the one recipe page for the Methanol Reactor.

Methanol Reactor Recipe Page

One thing I found that was weird was that in FNEI if I'm looking at something that I can craft, the name of that item is green. These two items have red names even though it shows that I have already researched the technology needed.

Weird FNEI Stuff

Any ideas?

Nexela · Post by **Nexela** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:46 am

Possibly a migration issue

Run this command and see if anything changes
/c game.player.force.reset_technology_effects()

TheMegaMan · Post by **TheMegaMan** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:14 am

That did it! Thanks for the help folks.

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:30 am

I am playing these mods for the first time, and so far so good. I do have 1 question tho - what is the point in making circuit board 1 from the sub components vs just the copper/boards?

by my reckoning (as im beginning to plan it out in Helmod), to produce 15 T1 Circuits per minute (1/4 sec) it needs 7.2MW power, ~192 copper, ~80 iron, ~1k vacuum, 320 coal, 16k steam, 30k water.
the alternative, for the same production volume of 15 per minute needs 540kW, 225 copper and 500 water.

Have i missed something?

My usual play style is full bob/angel, so big isnt an issue, but this seems to be bigger that its own alternative for a net negative result?

Mod pack is just Py, Helmod, FNEI.

daydev · Post by **daydev** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:36 am

Stormcaller wrote:I am playing these mods for the first time, and so far so good. I do have 1 question tho - what is the point in making circuit board 1 from the sub components vs just the copper/boards?

by my reckoning (as im beginning to plan it out in Helmod), to produce 15 T1 Circuits per minute (1/4 sec) it needs 7.2MW power, ~192 copper, ~80 iron, ~1k vacuum, 320 coal, 16k steam, 30k water.
the alternative, for the same production volume of 15 per minute needs 540kW, 225 copper and 500 water.

Have i missed something?

You've missed that the simpler recipe is handcraft only, you can't make it in any machine.

Stormcaller · Post by **Stormcaller** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:57 am

lol thanks, i was pretty sure i had to have missed something.

pyanodon · Post by **pyanodon** » Tue May 01, 2018 2:37 pm

pyHT updated. Please update your mod

npuldon · Post by **npuldon** » Wed May 02, 2018 3:38 am

What are the actual changes?

Progression update? Currently PCB1 recipe is like crushed saph-->tier 3 AB lead plates and Level 1 circuit boards are more involved (complexity, power, surface area) than anything in Angel's Bobs. Two L1 circuit boards per second is like 160MW and a base 5 times bigger than most vanilla end game bases. Level 1! Some progression would be highly recommended. Currently I can recommend all Py Mods except for this one to folks and it's a shame because there is a lot of good content here but the balance/progression is all crazy to just get level 1 pcbs (via the non-slow recipe) and level 1 circuit boards.

daydev · Post by **daydev** » Wed May 02, 2018 5:46 am

You can consult the commit on GitHub to see the detailed list of changes, that's what I did. The gist of it seems to be that the initial handcrafted circuit board 1 (and only the initial), circuit board 2 and circuit board 3 were greatly buffed (crafting time reduced, yield tripled), some of the electronics components yields were buffed to a varying extent, and the intelligence units yield was halved. No structural changes to the crafting trees that I could detect.

Dr_Killedalot · Post by **Dr_Killedalot** » Wed May 02, 2018 6:39 am

Is it intentional that the Printet Cuircit Substrate 1 is insanely dofficult to make in bigger amounts O.o

Using helmod it tells me for just a yellow belt of em id need 2400 fawoge plantations and 960 Paddocks aswell as ~0,6 GW of Power
And using fiber for faster urea would actully lead to a loss in PCS`s even with the fertilizer recipe for the fiber

pyanodon · Post by **pyanodon** » Wed May 02, 2018 9:10 am

People, do you know you can update the mod, right? Before complain here about long times etc...that balance thing was fixed some time ago. you can generate 3 circuit boards 1 each 2-5 seconds even with bobs. But if you want more than that, yeah, expand your base. For start game it´s more than enough.

npuldon · Post by **npuldon** » Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 pm

pyanodon wrote:People, do you know you can update the mod, right? Before complain here about long times etc...that balance thing was fixed some time ago. you can generate 3 circuit boards 1 each 2-5 seconds even with bobs. But if you want more than that, yeah, expand your base. For start game it´s more than enough.

Feedback:
We have updated. You changed the easier PCB1 to handcraft only (in a game about automation). Okay, I get you want to incentivize folks to automate the more difficult setup. That's fine. Let's go see what that involves...

Hmmmmm, raw fiber is needed to make fiberboards which are needed for the more difficult PCB1 recipe. Okay, raw fiber needs a kicalk plantation, THAT REQURIES L1 CIRCUIT BOARDS!(a level above PCB1). So now folks need to hand craft ALL pcb1 s needed for the machines needed to get to circuit board level 1 which as the recipes were created requires HUGE energies (120MW+ for 2 circuitboards per second), complexity, and space for VERY LOW throughput. All this for level 1 circuit boards, just to automate level 1 pcbs1 in a game about automation at near game start. We're talking about level 1 here, not 2,3,4... In a game about automation this doesn't make sense and effectively means near zero complexity progression which I don't think is the intent.

Regardless of the above issue (which is game breaking IMO in terms of balance compared to anything I have seen in the past) there is still the issue of HUGE energies, complexity, and space needed for level 1 citcuit boards which are required for a lot of level 1 machines in the game. You can't even build washing plants and water treatment until you get level 1 circuit boards thus removing whole sections of production chains gated behind the huge effort to craft very low throughput for level 1 circuit boards. Again, I don't see a reason why at least the first level can't be simplified from both the effort needed (energy & space) and the complexity required. Also, bring back the non-handcrafting recipe. The game is about automation and you currently are forcing the end-user to craft 100-1000 PCBs just to get circuit level 1's automated.

If you don't agree with the above the most minimal thing you could do to make it better would be to change the recipe of the kicalk plantation to use pcb1 instead of level 1 circuit boards and bring back the non-handcraft restriction for pcb1s.

pyanodon · Post by **pyanodon** » Wed May 02, 2018 2:59 pm

npuldon wrote:
pyanodon wrote:People, do you know you can update the mod, right? Before complain here about long times etc...that balance thing was fixed some time ago. you can generate 3 circuit boards 1 each 2-5 seconds even with bobs. But if you want more than that, yeah, expand your base. For start game it´s more than enough.
Feedback:
We have updated. You changed the easier PCB1 to handcraft only (in a game about automation). Okay, I get you want to incentivize folks to automate the more difficult setup. That's fine. Let's go see what that involves...

Hmmmmm, raw fiber is needed to make fiberboards which are needed for the more difficult PCB1 recipe. Okay, raw fiber needs a kicalk plantation, THAT REQURIES L1 CIRCUIT BOARDS!(a level above PCB1). So now folks need to hand craft ALL pcb1 s needed for the machines needed to get to circuit board level 1 which as the recipes were created requires HUGE energies (120MW+ for 2 circuitboards per second), complexity, and space for VERY LOW throughput. All this for level 1 circuit boards, just to automate level 1 pcbs1 in a game about automation at near game start. We're talking about level 1 here, not 2,3,4... In a game about automation this doesn't make sense and effectively means near zero complexity progression which I don't think is the intent.

Regardless of the above issue (which is game breaking IMO in terms of balance compared to anything I have seen in the past) there is still the issue of HUGE energies, complexity, and space needed for level 1 citcuit boards which are required for a lot of level 1 machines in the game. You can't even build washing plants and water treatment until you get level 1 circuit boards thus removing whole sections of production chains gated behind the huge effort to craft very low throughput for level 1 circuit boards. Again, I don't see a reason why at least the first level can't be simplified from both the effort needed (energy & space) and the complexity required. Also, bring back the non-handcrafting recipe. The game is about automation and you currently are forcing the end-user to craft 100-1000 PCBs just to get circuit level 1's automated.

If you don't agree with the above the most minimal thing you could do to make it better would be to change the recipe of the kicalk plantation to use pcb1 instead of level 1 circuit boards and bring back the non-handcraft restriction for pcb1s.

You can still produce fiver without lights. Also the output for each pcb and circuit board are 3, same for automated versions... Sorry if you arent pleased of how things are.

npuldon · Post by **npuldon** » Wed May 02, 2018 3:05 pm

pyanodon wrote: You can still produce fiver without lights. Also the output for each pcb and circuit board are 3, same for automated versions... Sorry if you arent pleased of how things are.

Yes, without lights(which take pcbs) but the kicalk plantaion takes circuit board, not pcb1 so the point is kind of mute.

daydev · Post by **daydev** » Wed May 02, 2018 3:32 pm

pyanodon wrote: Also the output for each pcb and circuit board are 3, same for automated versions...

I just want to point out that the automated circuit boards 1 produce not 3, but 2 per craft. Handcrafted circuit boards 1 produce 3 per craft. Not a huge deal, but possibly a small oversight, as you seem to be implying that everything circuit related is 3 per craft everywhere. Also without bobs pcb1 (printed circuit substrate 1) is produced 1 per craft. Also without bobs pcb1 is not handcraftable. I'm not quite sure what's intended and if I'm missing something.

Shorkan · Post by **Shorkan** » Wed May 02, 2018 3:57 pm

Without bobs the handcraftable recipe produce circuit board 1 instead of the pcb1 in a game with bob. The buildings are changed the same way, circuit board 1 instead of pcb1, so there is no need for a handcraftable pcb1 in a game without bob. The only building where you need pcb1 is the chipshooter. Maybe intendet too push you towards the pcb1 chain, befor you build the circuit board 1 chain.

daydev · Post by **daydev** » Wed May 02, 2018 4:07 pm

Shorkan wrote:Without bobs the handcraftable recipe produce circuit board 1 instead of the pcb1 in a game with bob. The buildings are changed the same way, circuit board 1 instead of pcb1, so there is no need for a handcraftable pcb1 in a game without bob. The only building where you need pcb1 is the chipshooter. Maybe intendet too push you towards the pcb1 chain, befor you build the circuit board 1 chain.

Ah, okay, that makes sense, then the only question is whether the circuits 1 and pcb1 are supposed to be produced 3 at a time in the machines as pyanodon seemed to imply ("same for automated versions").

Raphaello · Post by **Raphaello** » Wed May 02, 2018 6:10 pm

npuldon wrote:Hmmmmm, raw fiber is needed to make fiberboards which are needed for the more difficult PCB1 recipe. Okay, raw fiber needs a kicalk plantation, THAT REQURIES L1 CIRCUIT BOARDS!(a level above PCB1). So now folks need to hand craft ALL pcb1 s needed for the machines needed to get to circuit board level 1 which as the recipes were created requires HUGE energies (120MW+ for 2 circuitboards per second), complexity, and space for VERY LOW throughput. All this for level 1 circuit boards, just to automate level 1 pcbs1 in a game about automation at near game start. We're talking about level 1 here, not 2,3,4... In a game about automation this doesn't make sense and effectively means near zero complexity progression which I don't think is the

My proposal to solve this challenge is to give the players an inefficient way to produce fiber from wood in L1 assembly machine. This would make it possible to make the automation of L1 circuit boards and PCB1 possible without handcrafting lots of circuits to build ONE kicalk plantation.
Building something inefficiently but automatically to open up more efficient ways is the factorio way IMO.
So , all the fiber needed for the plantation would be produced very inefficienlyt but once we’ve got all these circuits to build the first planatation...

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