Iron Chests, An Idea for Conversion and Re-Use

[Maddhawk]

TL/DR?

Allow for Iron Chests to be either smelted down into 1 bar of steel (causing a loss of 3 iron plates), or allow for Iron Chests to be used with 7 bars of steel to produce a Steel Chest.

THE PROBLEM?

So in my current game, I have large deposits of various ores sitting where I'd like to expand my factory. These deposits both outstrip my capacity to smelt and to use these resources at this time. In fact the very expansion of capacity that would use them is the very ground upon which they stand. This necessitated the building of storage box warehouses to mine the ore into until the ground was freed up so I can build my expansion.

When I began my strip mining operations all I had access to was Iron and Wooden Chests. I made large numbers of Iron chests to provide my storage problem solution. Now I can produce steel. With steel I can produce Steel Chests. This leaves me with over 10,000 Iron Chests that no longer have any real function except as redundant obsolete storage. I could use them later on as overflow storage, but that isn't very optimal as Steel Chests can perform the same functions even better. So what else can I do with all these Iron Chests? Nothing. Destroy them. Pack them up and store them. Take your pick.

THE SUGGESTION!

• I would like to see one of two things added to the game that would solve my above dilemma.
  • A) Allow me to toss in the old chests into a smelter and produce 1 bar of steel from each.
  • Iron Chests cost 8 Iron Plates
  • Steel Plates cost 5 Iron Plates
  • Steel Chests cost 8 Steel Plates
  • We loose 3 Iron Plates recycling Iron Chests to produce Steel Plates
  • This ensures that using iron in this manner to get steel is not a "better way" to play or an exploit for greater steel capacity, and removes a "punishment" for crafting Iron Chests.
  • We already can burn Wood Poles and Wood Chests as fuel allowing recycling of Wood Items <-----PRECEDENT HAS ALREADY BEEN ESTABLISHED!!!
  • B) Allow me to take seven Steel Plates and 1 Iron Chest and upgrade the chest into a Steel Chest. This really isn't much a difference from the first suggestion except I don't have to toss the Iron Chests into a smelter. Instead I can my already complete Steel Plates and simply either feed everything into an Assembler or craft in my hands to upgrade my Iron Chests into Steel Chests with their greater capacity. Materially, the cost is the same. The Iron Chest is, for intents and purposes, being reduced to a single Steel Plate. The final Steel Plate needed to produce a Steel Chest.

HOW THIS IMPROVES THE GAME!!

Allowing us to convert iron fhests either into a single steel plate or take seven steel plates and upgrade an iron chest into a steel chest brings new life back to iron chests produced in the early game prior to steel production. It permits us to be more efficient with our resources and early game since we know the iron we use for chests isn't lost forever. Finally, this brings a huge QOL improvement to the usage of iron chests without providing the players with anything that can be exploited or used as a "shortcut" to bypass intended gameplay mechanics.

[PyroFire]

Agreed, iron chests are worthless.

I skip them all together and go straight to steel chests, and i try to limit the number of wooden chests i create.

A way to recycle them might be useful for other players though.
Or to say that another way, iron chests don't need to exist in the game because they are redundant almost as soon as you unlock them.

[Maddhawk]

When I realized I couldn't re-use my iron chests for anything, I restarted my game on a new map. I had built almost 10,000 iron chests making "warehouses" for the ore I was strip mining that was sitting where I wanted to build my large scale smelting arrays, my science production, AND my science center. >< Only areas that were largely clear was the area I wanted for my initial primary steam power station. I had such a lovely vision for it all. Then I started looking for information on what to do with all these chests I had made and realized I had just wasted close to 80,000 iron on them.

Now, I will sit and cool my heals for a couple hours while I slowly build into steel production to make steel chests. THEN I will begin building out my new base.

[Zavian]

It takes 50 red science to research steel. At that point you can build steel chests. You could have setup one assembler automating red science, and have that finished in 10 minutes. The only time I've ever built iron chests is when wood was scarcer than iron.

[bobucles]

I'd honestly rather be okay if Iron chests were completely removed from the game. It's a palette swap of a superior item and is viable for all of about 10 minutes in game. Wooden chests are perfectly adequate until the player gets 50 red science for steel.

[Hedning1390]

Definitely remove iron chests, and I think we could go even further and remove steel chests as well.

Alternatively if we gave iron chests the ability to set item filters (like player inventory and train wagons), but that wasn't also given to higher tier chests then they could remain.

[bobucles]

Steel chests are okay. They play into the color coded logistic upgrades down the line.

The difference between iron and steel storage isn't important because they are only minutes apart on the tech tree. It's tough enough to even fill up an iron chest before steel chests start rolling out. Pick one or the other, there's no need to have both.

[Maddhawk]

It takes 50 red science to research steel. At that point you can build steel chests. You could have setup one assembler automating red science, and have that finished in 10 minutes. The only time I've ever built iron chests is when wood was scarcer than iron.

I like to play with expensive research on and set to 25x. Makes it so that Automation costs 100 red, steel costs 1250 red, Advanced Material Processing (steel furnaces) costs 1875 red and green, etc. I feel the default costs are just WAYYYYYYYY too cheap, at least on science. I leave the crafting on normal costs.

Edit: In my newest game, that I have spent all night playing to my surprise, I didn't make any iron chests and used only wood until I had my science where I wanted it. I also stayed small and more or less spent several hours just clearing forests while waiting for my science to finish instead this time.

[JimiQ]

I actually rarely use steel chests. Iron chest is 5x cheaper and has a capacity of 3/4 of steel chest.

As a train station buffer - 6 iron chests store 9600 ore while cargo wagon can only hold 2000. Why do you need larger buffer there?

[Maddhawk]

I haven't even reached the point of trains yet lol. What I am doing is strip mining entire ore fields into large arrays of chests so I can access the land underneath them for my master planned base layout. Think of master planned communities in the real world. First they drive the roads into pure wild countryside. Then they strip the land clean. Then they build out an entire town or city, almost overnight, and start selling and/or leasing space to people looking to move into new space. You can find many such large scale developments around major cities that are growing at very rapid rates. I am sorta doing the same thing with my base. I lay down brick roads ( I don't have concrete yet) then I layout how I want things to be and where and then build it out. Sometimes there are large ore patches in the way. Now, I could just ignore them and build over, but why let perfectly good resources go to waste? Mining them outstrips my capacity to smelt by a wide margin, so I store the ore.

Y'all are really assuming some weird things. That said, iron chests really are worthless. The suggestion I have made gives them a new lease on life, even if that life is very short.

[bobingabout]

I don't build iron chests, simply because they're useless when you can make steel ones. I build as few wooden chests as possible until I can build steel... which honestly can be as many as zero chests, because my early game automation is either non-existent, or belt driven.

And, even the output of burner drills either lands on a belt, a furnace, or in the case of coal another burner drill.

The main problem with saying "allow them to be turned into steel chests" is that, the way the devs work with these things, it will mean it will REPLACE the existing steel chest recipe, so all steel chests will require an iron chest to be built.
I'd honestly rather not have this (even though for the most part, this is normal for the game)

[Hedning1390]

Pretty much everything you could possibly need to buffer above the capacity of a wood chest are things you want in the logistics network, such as blue belts. Hence everything like that will have a passive provider and not a steel chest. The only exceptions are artillery shells (not really) and military science. There's also some use when speedrunning. It is interesting to see people saying they never use wood chests when that is the only non logistics chest I ever use.

In factorio buffering is bad because you are using resources that could be used for things that you actually use. Some hardcore players even use circuits to make sure buffers are absolutely minimal, even making sure belts aren't full unless needed for throughput. The smaller wood size allows you to be lazy and not limit the chest, but still not feel like you are extremely inefficient. I am not too concerned about efficiency, but for me the simple case of sometimes having to deconstruct chests with items in them are enough for me to never use steel chests.

Maybe a balance alternative could be to limit wood chests to just one stack so that they are truly too small for some applications, but then people would simply stop using them, and what's the point then of the wood chests then other than a useless stepping stone. No, the best solution to this issue is to either remove both the steel and iron chest, or create some unique ability other than just number of stacks which makes all existing chests useful in some situation.

[eradicator]

So in my current game, I have large deposits of various ores sitting where I'd like to expand my factory. These deposits both outstrip my capacity to smelt and to use these resources at this time.

Self-imposed "OCD"-induced "ore fields are lava"-style rules are not a problem in the game's design. You just build your factorio on top of the depot. And if it makes you feel better you get a mod that deletes the ore so it looks nicer.

This necessitated the building of storage box warehouses to mine the ore into until the ground was freed up so I can build my expansion.

No. You could have just built your expansion right away. On top of the deposit or anywhere else.

I made large numbers of Iron chests to provide my storage problem solution.

Your non-problem did not require any "solution" like that. You made your own problem by ignoring the solution that is provided by the game: To build your factorio anywhere you want. Instead you set yourself a goal you don't even like, to only allow yourself to build new factorio bits in places where there previously were ore deposits. You reached your goal, congratulations. But complaining about bad self-imposed goals is not a "suggestion".

Iron chests have been discussed manye times. And the consensus has always been that iron chests should just be removed from the game. The real problem that is highlighted here is that too many people (including myself mind you) have a strong aversion against building on ore fields. And while the base game does not offer any meaningful method to get rid of them there are several mods already that do, so there's nothing left to do here really.

TL;DR:
Recycle iron chests back to iron plates at a loss? "Sure, why not."

[darkfrei]

TL;DR:
Recycle iron chests back to iron plates at a loss? "Sure, why not."

It's Deconstruction mod, you get your iron plates back.

[eradicator]

TL;DR:
Recycle iron chests back to iron plates at a loss? "Sure, why not."

It's Deconstruction mod, you get your iron plates back.

I already deal with iron chests in my personal tweak mod, so my comment was strictly base-game related.

[Lav]

Maybe just allow smelting iron chests into iron plates?

Smelters choose their recipe automatically anyway based on the provided ingredient, so no recipe conflict.

P. S. For bonus points, use wooden chests as fuel.

[Maddhawk]

So in my current game, I have large deposits of various ores sitting where I'd like to expand my factory. These deposits both outstrip my capacity to smelt and to use these resources at this time.

Self-imposed "OCD"-induced "ore fields are lava"-style rules are not a problem in the game's design. You just build your factorio on top of the depot. And if it makes you feel better you get a mod that deletes the ore so it looks nicer.

This necessitated the building of storage box warehouses to mine the ore into until the ground was freed up so I can build my expansion.

No. You could have just built your expansion right away. On top of the deposit or anywhere else.

I made large numbers of Iron chests to provide my storage problem solution.

Your non-problem did not require any "solution" like that. You made your own problem by ignoring the solution that is provided by the game: To build your factorio anywhere you want. Instead you set yourself a goal you don't even like, to only allow yourself to build new factorio bits in places where there previously were ore deposits. You reached your goal, congratulations. But complaining about bad self-imposed goals is not a "suggestion".

Iron chests have been discussed manye times. And the consensus has always been that iron chests should just be removed from the game. The real problem that is highlighted here is that too many people (including myself mind you) have a strong aversion against building on ore fields. And while the base game does not offer any meaningful method to get rid of them there are several mods already that do, so there's nothing left to do here really.

TL;DR:
Recycle iron chests back to iron plates at a loss? "Sure, why not."

A wild arrogant ass appears!

Your opinions are noted and discarded. While it is true that I have set myself certain goals, you are completely incorrect as to what they are. You also assume I don't like large storage arrays when the opposite is true. Had I known at that time that iron chests were a trap, I would have simply kept my factory teeny tiny longer until I researched steel production and gotten that up and running to make myself steel chests. I LIKE depleting all resources in sight. It just plain feels productive to do so and a HUGE degree of the value of any game is how good they can make us feel and how well they can entertain. My complaint isn't my in game challenges, both those set by the game and those set by me, but rather that there are things in the game, like the iron chest, that are just completely and totally useless.

Now, honesty compels me to admit that my solution above still doesn't solve the problem that iron chests are generally rendered redundant very very quickly given how fast steel is reached. However, that is a problem for another time, should anyone else feel like it is one worth taking up.

Finally, it is my OPINION AND JUDGEMENT that any mod, that is not from Wube and thus 3rd party, is not a viable solution at this time. I am NEW to the game. I want to play the BASE game, aka Vanilla, as much as I can. When that finally grows stale, only then will I seek to explore mods to spice things up.

[dragontamer5788]

Here's a practical idea:

1. Nuke all of your Iron Chests when you're done with them.

Really. Because Iron Chests are so cheap: they are 1/5th the cost of steel chests. So just throw them away when you're done and don't worry about recycling the raw material costs.

For example, if you build a 4x double-sided wagon unloader (12x chests per wagon or 48x chests + 48 stack inserters), you're spending 384 iron on iron chests, and 2640 iron on stack inserters. If you built it out with steel chests instead, you'd spend 1920 iron on the chests instead. Still less than the iron costs alone on the stack inserters.

Chest costs are relatively small. So throw away the chests when you're done with them.

[bobucles]

Iron Chests suffer from two deadly game sins:

1) You don't need it. Like at all. You can 100% build a rocket without iron chests and every one made is destined to be future clutter.
2) It's a palette swap of a superior item (both literally and mechanically)

Factorio is a very polished game and doesn't need much beyond minor balance tweaks. Iron chests are a redundant item whose mere existence causes problems. The game is better off without them.

[dragontamer5788]

1) You don't need it. Like at all. You can 100% build a rocket without iron chests and every one made is destined to be future clutter.

Iron chests are far more efficient in the midgame however. You know, that long time period where you're still using yellow belts because red and blue belts are too expensive. Wood cannot be mass produced. And since a modest train-station requires so many chests (ex: a 2-4 train will want 24-chests, maybe 48 if you're double-sided), cheaper iron-chests are certainly a strong option to use in the midgame.

If you're ~1 red belt of iron (26.6666 iron plates per second) or ~1600 iron/minute, a stack of 50-iron chests is just ~15 seconds worth of iron, while a steel chest is ~75 seconds worth of iron.

True, steel chests upgrade to logistical chests eventually. But you need a highly functioning base before you get to Logistic Chests. So highly functioning that you might as well launch the rocket before you build a logistic network. Furthermore, because the primary cost of Logistical Chests are the Adv. Circuit, the ~8 iron you spent on chests earlier isn't really a big deal.