Friday Facts #247 - Pricing and its exploits

[ZombieMooose]

First point, you didn't announce this on Twitter or Facebook. OR I never got notifications.

Second I heard Satisfactory is gonna have limited map size so that it may have a lot of potential it's still limited. That's also if they allow modding which if they're smart they will, but in terms of system specs Factorio is gonna be able to be in more hands by default.

[Jovus]

Satisfactiory overshadowing Factorio? Gimme a break

One of Satisfactory's weaknesses I haven't yet seen discussed:

Factorio's landscape is serviceable, but no great beauty. It gets the job done by breaking up the background of the world a bit and changing some of the (more implicit) challenges faced by the player, but if we're honest it's aesthetically nondescript at best, and the inhabitants are downright ugly and annoying.

Meanwhile, Satisfactory's landscape is beautiful, judging by the trailer. And at least some of its inhabitants look cute and sympathetic.

Unfortunately for Satisfactory, this means that were I to start a game, I'd feel rather reticent to ruin it all by building a factory. Whereas in Factorio I really don't care and just want to get the factory running ASAP. And when I do get the factory running in Satisfactory, by the mid-game (or whenever you're supposed to get those cool-looking vehicles) I'd be thinking to myself, "This is fun and all, but it just used to be so much prettier."

[rbos]

Satisfactory is not planning a Linux port, so it's an automatic 'no' for me.

You guys have been wonderful to Linux users. I thank you and I hope we haven't been disproportionately troublesome.

[silenced]

Regarding regional pricing: I can still remember when Borderlands 2 was released, it was extremely cheap in the RU version. So most people bought the RU version in hope to change the language to english, which was not possible though. But due to the high amount of people who did this, Steam & Gearbox decided to activate both versions on the accounts, the russian one and the international english one.

So there are lots of accounts with Borderlands 2 and Borderlands 2 RU in their library.

Regarding that guy 'exploiting' the pricing, well, he saw and used an opportunity. Buy cheap, sell expensive, welcome to capitalism!

[OmegaStorm720]

I want to play this game with my friends so much but convincing them to buy it is hard. This is mainly due to me being unable to explain to them what the game is and it isn't made any easier with the trailer. I find that the trailer is quite outdated and poorly shows off Factorio failing to capture what makes it fun. From personal experience, the trailer put me off buying the game but after watching youtubers play it I then began to see what a masterpiece it was. With seeing the Satisfactory trailer I think maybe you guys could learn from this to make a trailer that could truly show what this game is all about. While I understand the game is close to being released and you might wait until then to make a new trailer, you have however stated that you don't intend to add in any more content I feel a new trailer could be a beneficial investment. I'm keen for the release either way and until you make a new trailer I'll keep trying to convince my friends to get this game through other means.

[jmurrayufo]

I think the fact that we are seeing other real takes on the "lets build a factory" game is probably one of the best signs you will ever see that you got it right. As a developer, it means you now are not subject to a vacuum within your games space. Others will be trying different ideas, and you will get to see what flops and flies. Just as they will look to you for the same. As a player, competition means more diversity and play options. The genre as a whole becoming more seated and popular should ideally be a good thing for everyone.

I cannot wait to see where you guys take factorio in the future, and I cannot wait to see a collection of new games spring up around you. These games are all amazing!

[Ohz]

[quote=Kovarex]To that, I would say, that if they managed to do a game that is better then Factorio on every level, than they deserve it.[/quote]

This is exactly why since the beginning of times master is taken over by his student. That's the way it goes, and that's how a master finish his life. But the master was an essential piece of perfecting an art and transmitting his knowledge. The student will become master the day he overcome him, it's his goal, the master cannot refuse it, refuse the evolution, stand against the youth and he cannot be called a master.

In my humble opinion, Satisfactory will never reach the depth and strenght of Factorio, but it might simply slide on an other line, like from Minecraft is inspired by Dwarf Fortress but have far from his depth, Satisfactory may win a certain popularity by focussing in the player sensation, emotions, easy fun, than a depth in the gameplay, deep calculation, and massive builds.

Be sure about a thing:
1. There will always be hardcore player, like there is still people playing Starcraft, Dwarf Fortress, ect...
2. Factorio will be for sure one day be an oldschool game, therefore new game will be "better" or at least different.
3. Factorio like many other game as Simcity, Railroad Tycoon, Civilization, Dwarf Fortress, ect created a new genre and will never be forgotten, will exist in every new game. Look how there is crafting everywhere since Minecraft (he certainly didn't created it, it made it way more popular)


I am piano tuner, sales goes down since 40 years now. If I refuse the evolution of piano/music and destroy all digital piano, I'm shooting in the foot by refusing reality and ways to adapt myself to the people. And my job will die for real.


You are astonishing, the end of Factorio is far from near. You approaching the 1.0, basically the highest spike of awe. You cannot hope to exist for ever. You simply will.

Have a great day
(sorry not english)

[bman212121]

All the Factorio models are made in 3D right? So Factorio2 should be isometric view at the very least, but definitely some kind of 3D. Maybe like the way it is on Cities:Skylines or The Sims.

Let's hope not. I've never really liked the whole "3D" experience you get from most games that started out in 2D. I don't care if the graphics are fancy, I just want solid gameplay that is easy to manage. I can't tell you how many titles are ruined by trying to make the game prettier. The grid based system that is being used right now is far superior than randomly placing items down on the map with zero alignment. So many simulation and RTS games have gone down that path where they try to add complex models, and all it does is make the game harder to play. I'd much rather them stick to simple grids and work out different ways to make a more diverse gameplay than making you waste a bunch of time panning cameras and dealing with the problems that 3d brings.

[gustaphe]

My takehome:
21 people returned Factorio?! Who are these idiots?

[PolarisDesu]

You guys mentioned something about not knowing how to feel regarding this new upcoming game and ask for some thoughts so here I am...

I think it is a good idea to make a deadline before such game.

I will break down the points:

[*]If they are willing to do some major investment in the PR of their game, the byproduct is also having more people interested in the genre, which could be beneficial to Factorio.

Based on what I could see, I would bet one of my nuts if that game costs less than 30$... And it is clear to anybody that Factorio and that game, would have a very minor competition. So they make the hype, they invest the most in the PR of their game, and Factorio steals players that would want to spend less money or even those want a more hardcore experience (Because I highly doubt that game would excell Factorio's complexity, unless we consider a dancing emote as "complexity", but jokes aside, it is legit if they use that approach certain player bases with things like that)

[*]The like-hood of success of that game is not very high based on the initial impressions. But what about the competition?

Who did not get the No man sky vibes watching that trailer? How are they going to animate everything? They have some secret way to handle the graphical needs of the project? If there is multiplayer, how will they keep track of everything (Characters, objects, etc) while maintaining synchronization in a 3D environment? But Factorio as the delivering competitor, would give ease of mind to new players in the genre, whether or not that games fails, because they get interested and hyped in that new genre and there is another game that is also operational.

[*]Their concept of the game is not inclusive, which could also lead players to look for alternatives.

But hey, lets assume they deliver. How many players would have the necessary hardware to fully enjoy that game? To be honest, I think that less than half... Man, I keep thinking, HOW they would pull that off...

[*]If they pull a No man skydinger, Factorio would benefit a lot.

In the hypothetical scenario where that game is an utter fail, but Factorio announced its release shortly before that game, Factorio would have gotten a regular increase in the player base due to the exploitation of opportunities whilst the PR campaigns take place, and then that game would receive a backlash of disappointed players that would look at the competition of the game only to find a fully realized idea, a clear and strong concept that is also available to a wide audience that is also part of an active community. I believe a lot of players would migrate from that game to Factorio, but not only that, if that game receives a public backlash, Factorio would gain even more PR...

[*]If factorio does nothing, it might stay behind.

We all know that the amount of money you invest as PR directly correlates with the success in the promotion of a game in most of the cases, Take Overwatch for example, Blizzard even flooded the trashy publicity outlets online to increase the amount of exposure to the most amount of players possible, and even though the game was being reported as plain, incomplete, etc, they were very successful.

But if that game succeeds while Factorio stays in development, I am not sure of how good that would be to Factorio, I mean, that was a well made trailer, on E3, those guys seem to go big. And if the bad PR after a fail release of that game comes, the supporting points I mentioned above would apply, but to a lesser extend, because Factorio would not be a fully fledged game to properly compare both.

That is what I think, but I also think that rushing things may be bad and if you would like to go safe without hurry, that is okay too, at the end I am enjoying the development process of this game (Unlike with my pledge on Star citizen). Because, ultimately, there is no need to do anything after all, there are just some arguable opportunities and risks.

PS: I will keep hoping for that conveyor belt on-line material inverter that I desire so much every-time I see that I make an horrible arrangement to improve the material consumption of my base...

[Koub] Merged the response in the topic

[ske]

My takehome:
21 people returned Factorio?! Who are these idiots?

Impulse buy for the third time.

[sowieso]

Wow, Satisfactory looks really satisfying. I'd love multi-level belts without 90 degree lock, a 3D environment with flora and fauna, and it still looks nicely complex. Maybe there's also some kind of exploration system inside (like Subnautica, I'm dreaming). Mega base players will still be better off with Factorio, but for me, Factorio was always over after I launched the rocket (no goal anymore, no motivation anymore, I don't care for achievements), so a game that is more focused on mid-level bases would be perfect for me. Hope it will be purchasable without DRM/Steam. Anyways, the competition won't make Factorio any less good.

[Tami]

When is the release for the new game? Where i can preorder it?

[Ormek]

As always: Try to finish! I think you are on the perfect path now: Overhauling the UI, updating scenarios, including more tutorials. That is what it takes to get Factorio 1.0. Factorio is feature complete!

Once that is done:

• Make a vacation.
• Brainstorm about Factorio 2.0: will it be an evolution or a revolution?
• Think about add-Ons, that I would like to pay money for.

It is hard to see your baby grow up and leave your secure home and shelter, but you should not nurture it forever

Rather make new one, a better one (oh, stretching the child/baby picture a little bit too much)!

[ske]

Meanwhile, Satisfactory's landscape is beautiful, judging by the trailer. And at least some of its inhabitants look cute and sympathetic.

The biters and the fighting system still irks me as a gap filler and we get generic biter nests all over the place.

Then they use the fighting system for PvP which is fun for some time but full of weird exploits. In my opinion PvP would need a fighting system built again from the ground up.

The pollution - biter - landgrabbing - fighting relations are easy to understand but in my opinion don't work very well. You can't really avoid pollution and the solution to pollution is dil.. to clear the biter nests in a perimeter around your factory. The biters also don't serve any purpose except for being annoying. Why bother having them at all? Create some fauna that doesn't interact with anything like most games do and you're done.

The landscaping has no meaning an factorio after the initial setup of the factory. Any kind of ground? Build on it. Water? Fill in. Cliffs? Explode. Everything is the same, put concrete on it and done.

For me factorio has served it's purpose and I only play from time to time to check out the new features. Lately there haven't been many bigger changes, so I don't play much anymore. The whole polishing thing is nice but for me it doesn't add too much value. I still read the FFF because they provide great insights into the development process, so please don't stop that. For the game itself I'm mostly waiting for 1.0 being released and then I'm hoping that after 1.0 being stable there will be breaking changes in the experimental. I'd like to have the whole game revisited and the story/gameplay around it rebuilt from the ground up. The engine seems fine. The graphics seem fine. There is so much you can do. Factorio seems to want to be more than it should and falls short on many levels. You can't fix this by polishing it more. Polishing gets you to 1.0 but no more. You need to take it apart, think what you want to achieve and then start adding things again slowly.

[Dev-iL]

When is the release for the new game? Where i can preorder it?

What platform will Satisfactory be released on?
At the moment it’ll be on Windows. But who knows what the future brings.

Will it be on Steam?
Yes. You can find the store page here: https://store.steampowered.com/app/526870/

When will it be out?
We missed our Alpha deadline in May so... dunno. Probably this year. But who knows, really. We won’t release it until we are happy with it.

Will there be mod support?
This is something we have seriously considered but are instead focusing on getting the game finished and running smoothly. Mod support may be added in the future.

Is this game going to keep being delayed?
No. But every time it is delayed it would most likely be Simon's fault. In fact, all delays are Simon's fault. @SBegby on Twitter.

Fun fact: these are the guys who published Goat Simulator.

...and there's just no way that Satisfactory will be localized into so many languages

[rkfg]

There are region locks on Steam that prevent this reselling scam. It's used for many not so cheap games, usually the keys bought in CIS can only be activated in CIS. But if GOG can't sell per-region keys that wouldn't work. The rouble price dropped noticeably a couple of months ago so that would mean more roubles per dollar which makes the scheme even more compelling.

As for Satisfactory, at least for me it's not that interesting because it doesn't support anything except Windows. And even though mac/linux share isn't that big, we still have a lot of friends we would like to recommend a good game to (and of course we can't if the game isn't available for our platform!). Will keep an eye on it anyway.

[miturion]

I am excited for Satisfactory. But they are too different to not play both.

[eradicator]

Unfortunately for Satisfactory, this means that were I to start a game, I'd feel rather reticent to ruin it all by building a factory. Whereas in Factorio I really don't care and just want to get the factory running ASAP. And when I do get the factory running in Satisfactory, by the mid-game (or whenever you're supposed to get those cool-looking vehicles) I'd be thinking to myself, "This is fun and all, but it just used to be so much prettier."

Minecraft also has rather nice, if not high-resolution, landscapes if you take the right generator. There's nothing more satisfying than building a cool mountain/ocean/jungle base. You don't have to destroy it all, and even if you did, if the world is large enough there's always something left around your base. So that's a non issue imho.

[BlueTemplar]

there were only 21 refunds in the last 3 months

21 morons.

But really, 7 returns a month is pretty darn low. That's awesome.

Rather meaningless without a sales/month number... (though we can extrapolate as "very low", considering the 1.5M copies sold since first "release")

There are region locks on Steam that prevent this reselling scam. It's used for many not so cheap games, usually the keys bought in CIS can only be activated in CIS. But if GOG can't sell per-region keys that wouldn't work. The rouble price dropped noticeably a couple of months ago so that would mean more roubles per dollar which makes the scheme even more compelling.

From what I've understood of the FFF, the issue seems to lie on Factorio website's side (the "retail key" feature) rather than on GoG's side ?