Friday Facts #44 - Decision making

[safan]

I would prefer to have a finished alien faction first. Fix their AI, give them more races (amphibious, airborne etc) and then provide us with the counters for each. What is the tank supposed for? Long range for worms, short range for biters? Or just to ride through forests without damage?

[Zourin]

Factorio is about designing to meet your needs. "Necessity is the mother of Invention", etc.

That said, from an engineering standpoint, means a tank design customized for fighting Biters.

1. Protected treads. Biters gnaw on the first things they hit, and Worms' projectile attacks aren't much different. The first things to get hit should NOT be the treads, but some form of armor covering.

2. Short Barrel(s). Biters engage at point blank range. Long guns will not be able to effectively target and hit biters at point blank range.

3. Multiple Barrels. There are a lot of targets (#understatement). A double-barreled configuration should balance size and firing rates.

4. Melee considerations. Is the tank faster than a biter swarm or slower? If it's slower, it should be designed with being swarmed in mind.

5. Tree mower. This is for the last fifty cars you destroyed.

[MaxStrategy]

I agree with you on everything but this.

2. Short Barrel(s). Biters engage at point blank range. Long guns will not be able to effectively target and hit biters at point blank range.

I understand why you want shorter barrels for closer range action but short barrels are almost always the higher caliber guns on a tank. They are usually howitzers that fire rockets or high explosive anti-tank rounds, weapons specifically designed to take out hardened emplacements and enemy armor.

For use against biters something more like the Churchill Crocodile might be more appropriate. Useful equipment would be the addition of side skirts and multiple heavy machine guns, alongside the main armament of a flamethrower and fast firing 75mm cannon with a firerate of 26 AP rounds/min (don't quote me on that) to take out advanced biters and base defenses. Of course the actual tank would probably be swarmed by biters so maybe we could have some choices between lighter and heavier tanks if we aren't going with a more modern MBT approach. I'd love to drive around in a Factorio version of the infamous T-34 (Stalin's Steamroller), though I don't think biter acid cares much about sloped armor. Maybe tanks are the wrong type of vehicle for Factorio, what do they use in Starship Troopers against bugs besides massed infantry? Or maybe we go the starcraft route and put our tank into 'siege' mode and wipe them out with the splash damage hehe.


Good mp support?

[torham]

You may also need a pilots licence for the glider. I am not sure about Czech republic, but here in UK, you have to have training and a licence to fly a hanglider, or a paraglider. Its quite expensive, the base level is around £7000. For me that was the most expensive part of getting to fly with a hanglider, and ultimately a breaking point ( since that was too much money back at that time).

[kovarex]

You may also need a pilots licence for the glider. I am not sure about Czech republic, but here in UK, you have to have training and a licence to fly a hanglider, or a paraglider. Its quite expensive, the base level is around £7000. For me that was the most expensive part of getting to fly with a hanglider, and ultimately a breaking point ( since that was too much money back at that time).

Wow, £7000 are you serious. The course and licence combine is here more like 7000 - 10000 CZK

[Neotix]

Any info about bug fix with logistic system? It's little game breaking bug that crashing game.

[max2605]

German:

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Ja das mit den Panzern währe der Hammer! Dann mit dem Multiplayer genialst :D. Ich denke mal dank eures Spielprinzips, sind keine Grenze gesetzt. Was Vielfalt und Erweiterungen betrifft.  Was mir so spontan eingefallen ist als Verbesserungsvorschlag oder Erweiterung ist folgendes:

Schön währe es wenn man dann die Möglichkeit hätte in eine Strategische Übersicht zu wechseln wenn man zum Beispiel das entsprechende Gebäude gebaut hat (Strategischer Kommandoposten) dieser hätte dann eine gewisse Reichweite wo man seine Panzer / Einheiten Befehligen kann zudem neue Gebäude errichten über die Baudrohnen. Mit Funkmasten kann man den Strategischen Kommandobereich ausweiten. Dies Könnte man bei Fahrzeuge durch ein Funkmodul erreichen was je nach Einbaugröße entsprechende Reichweite hat und die Befehle an die Einheiten um ihn herum weitergibt. 
Es währe cool wenn man die Panzer Modular aufbauen könnte wie die Raumschiffe bei StarRuler. Also selbst bestimmen was Bewaffnung, Panzerung und Hilfsmodule (Funk, Reparatur, Logistik(Treibstoff/Munition)) angeht.
Natürlich muss man dann auch überlegen ob die Einheiten die man befehligt dann Computer sind oder Bewohner die man Rekrutieren kann. Was dann auch Nahrungsmittel, Wasser, Medikamente und Wohnhäuser mit sich bringt. 

Was ich mir auf jeden Fall wünschen Würde währen LKW's als Logistische alternative. Mit verschiedenen Straßentypen die dann als Pfade dienen wie bei der Eisenbahn, dass währen zum Beispiel "Unbefestigter Feldweg"(diesen kann man einfach definieren und benötigt keine Ressourcen) 15%Höchstgeschwindigkeit, "Befestigter Feldweg" 35%Höchstgeschwindigkeit. "Gepfalsterte Straße" 50%Höchstgeschwindigkeit und dann die "Asphaltierte Straße" mit 100%.
In dem Zusammenhang könnte man überlegen ob ein Auto wirklich mit Holz fahren kann und Gleichzeitig mit Benzin. Da könnte man auch über die Modulare Bauweise verschiedenen Motoren einsetzen.

Und natürlich auch eine Künstliche Intelligenz die die Gleiche Fraktion hat wie man Selbst um Epische Panzerschlachten und Gefechte gegen ihn zu Schlagen.

Es ist also eine Mischung aus all meinen Lieblings Genen:
Real Time Strategy, Role Played Game, Economy-Simulation. (An dieser Stelle Fällt mir das Spiel Savage ein)

Das währen meine Ideen die mir Spontan eingefallen sind, ich weiß das das wie der Wunsch die Sonne in den Händen zu halten Klingt.

English (Google Translator / Me):

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Yes, with the tanks are a Great idea! Then best thing to take it with the multiplayer. I guess thanks to your game principle, no limit is set. As for diversity and extensions. What occurred to me as spontaneous as suggestion for improvement or expansion is as follows: 

Beautifully Währe it when you get the chance would have to change to a strategic overview if you have, for example, built the appropriate building (Strategic Command Post) this would then have a certain range where his tanks / units commanding you can also new building constructed on the construction robots. With radio masts can extend the strategic command area. This Could achieve what depending on the installation size has appropriate coverage and passes on the instructions to the units around him in vehicles through a wireless module. 
Undoubtedly, It would be cool if you could build the tanks Modular as the spaceships at StarRuler. So even determine what weapons, armor, and auxiliary modules (radio, repair, logistics (fuel / ammo)) is concerned. 
Of course you also have to consider then whether the units commanded you then computers are residents or you can recruit. What then food, water, medicines and homes brings. 

What I wish I definitely dignity are trucks as Logistic alternative. With different types of road which then serve as paths as in the railways that are as "Unpaved dirt road" (this can be easily defined and requires no resources) 15% maximum, "Paved Path" 35% limit. "Gepfalsterte Street" 50% speed and then the "Paved Road" at 100%. 
In this context, one might consider whether a car really can go with wood and the same with gasoline. Then you could also use on the Modular design different engines. 

And of course, a Artificial Intelligence to the same group has as one. Myself for Epic tank battles and skirmishes against him for beating 

So it's a mix of all my favorite genes: 
Real Time Strategy, Role Played Game, Economy simulation. (I remind me on the game Savage)

This are my ideas that have invaded my spontaneous, I know this sounds to keep the like wishing the sun in my hands.

Thank you for Read,
best regards Max2605

[Kenshaiso]

I Like #3 then #8 and finally #7.

Tanks should definitely be modular, that way you could build a lumbering behemoth with amour and heavy weaponry (large caliber or lasers?) or a smaller, lighter recon tank, like the car, but not as fast. also the concept of artillery would be nice in multiplayer games to mix up zerging as was mentioned already.

[FrozenOne]

I am making a good sport of guessing who wrote each friday facts, as slpwnd's english is a bit better (this time "an used" blew you).

I'd definitely go with trapezoid tracks, and have at least 3 models (steampunk, modern diesel, hovertank) with growing module capabilities.

I can imagine those triangular "Johny 5" track tanks as smaller automatic warbots, after you introduce PvP, some patrolling bots could come in handy in defense while also being more fun to fight against than stationary turrets.

[Forien]

I like idea of more "tiers" of tanks as mentioned before. Start with rusty steampowered (not to be confused with Steam), move on to some better WW2 (eliptic design), then modern (low profile, angular armor) and futuristic (triangular/modular armor etc).

Should easily give a lot of additional science to do and give some depth into game.

[torham]

You may also need a pilots licence for the glider. I am not sure about Czech republic, but here in UK, you have to have training and a licence to fly a hanglider, or a paraglider. Its quite expensive, the base level is around £7000. For me that was the most expensive part of getting to fly with a hanglider, and ultimately a breaking point ( since that was too much money back at that time).

Wow, £7000 are you serious. The course and licence combine is here more like 7000 - 10000 CZK

Right. Now I know where to go to get my licence ! That's like £300, that is 1/20 of the price here(!!!) . How about the gear? Here, an second hand hang glider in good condition start from somewhere around £1000 - £1500, without kit, Paragliders at around £500.

[Savaro]

tried to make a modification to the tanks. (https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 945#p35945)
In short:


I think "tank" as a separate object type is not necessary.
enough to expand a little api:
1. The ability to set the machine to add a link to another object (machine -> turret) that they are moving together.
2. Add turrets - An opportunity to manual control.
3. Add the ability to change the point of emergence of the display elements "enough ammunition", "not connected to the electricity network," and the like.
4. The same option with "modular armor for vehicles" very tempting.

I think the main problem is not the code, but in creating graphics

[Swartt]

The only thing I ask for is something in this style to let me plow through smaller biters

[DaveKap]

When it comes to voting on the tanks, I cannot vote for any of them because none of them have saws on the front used for cutting down swaths of forest.

[aRatNamedSammy]

design #7 look cool..
i could appreciated other choice of cannon, like a 2X light mg , or 1x gatling , 1x XXmm Cannon, upgradable to bigger with higher tech, or a choice of combination for the turret, like for the armor (shield, exosqueleton)
different kind of rockets, high explosive , phosphorus, armor piercing
talking of high tech, why not a laser cannon too

[aRatNamedSammy]

I loved this one:

great idea as last tank style

[MalContentFL]

I think the tanks are really cool. Maybe the tank could have multiple weapons that can be switched to with Q. Tanks with multiple slots for other people to ride in. Driver. Gunner. Extra spot. The extra spot allows for the shooting of handheld weapons.

[Billbock]

Why only one tank, why not using a few tanks with diferent specific roles like the MLRS from the first C&C

Yep that what i was proposing, but it seem my comment wasnt posted for some reason (and i realise that 3 day later :S

But i also think that tank should integrate current part in their design, like transporter belt as their tread, small Steam engine in the back and maybe inserter as turret pivot.

[Drury]

Nice to see some actual war machines, modern RTS games (and war games in general) seem to be very fond of their plastic toy looks which is fortunately not the case here. Rough bolted plates, that's the way it should be even if you're not a sloppy factory builder.

As for what the player character can realistically build - I don't think he would go for interbellum/WWII tank designs. The tanks themselves would be simple, but not archaic. He probably does remember tanks from Earth, and that far into the future they probably don't look anything like WWII ones so he'd probably built them in a different fashion. The ones he'd build would probably look something like GLA tanks in the cancelled Generals 2 game.




Kinda influenced by sleek designs of the other factions of the futuristic Earth, but still sloppy and thrown together.

[Flux Faraday]

I fear that many designs will be too distracting for you, but a traditional MkI tank followed by a MkII hover/laser tank might be fun. In the OP, I like the traditional-looking tank designs with smaller guns.

Also, it's not clear to me: is this a personal vehicle (like the car) that will do nothing when I'm not in it? Or is it an autonomous vehicle (like the train) that can be set to patrol a set of waypoints?

Looking forward to it!