pY Industry - Discussion

[TwentyEighty]

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Major: My character inventory has disappeared from view when I press E. It is still there because I can access it when I click on a chest, but I can no longer access my own inventory standing alone
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This is a factorio bug viewtopic.php?f=30&t=68457

[npuldon]

I updated PyIndustry and now looks like PyIndustry is requiring something in PyCoal processing now. I thought did not have such dependencies? I typically play with it whenever I'm doing any modded game, not just with the Py Suite.

Did the intention to have this be an addon mod change? If so, I can use an older version I guess when I play without the Py Suite. Please advise, thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/k3Rkiyx.png

[kingarthur]

I updated PyIndustry and now looks like PyIndustry is requiring something in PyCoal processing now. I thought did not have such dependencies? I typically play with it whenever I'm doing any modded game, not just with the Py Suite.

Did the intention to have this be an addon mod change? If so, I can use an older version I guess when I play without the Py Suite. Please advise, thank you.

https://i.imgur.com/k3Rkiyx.png

Was not intended. I forgot that pyindustry was not dependent on pycoal when I helped add productivity modules for pyanodon. Will be fixed

[Anon2k]

Niobium pipes break fluid mechanics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzzmKUFHFpM


You can test it: https://pastebin.com/UVjv5mym





When I returned the base_area coefficient (niobium-pipes.lua) for pipes to the value 1, the dimension of the pipe returned to 100 and everything became normal

[TwentyEighty]

Woah good find! I did a much less stringent test on 0.16 and found niobium pipes to be faster. I wonder if 0.17 changed it (The fluid mechanics were supposedly not changed that much though) or if I just missed it.

[drdking]

This is a Factorio problem, not a mod problem. Fluid mechanics in Factorio have always been a bit out of wack due to how they're programmed. For most uses the smallest diameter pipes were the best ones to use.

Supposedly the new fluid mechanics changes will fix this and make fluids work more like how they do in the real world, but these changes were put on hold and I don't think they said when they would roll them out.

[BlueTemplar]

The larger pipes should be faster than smaller pipes... as long as your pipes are short enough !
(And slower than smaller pipes if they are long enough, like in this example.)

However, since vanilla pumps themselves are of dimension 200, increasing pipe size over that is unlikely to help in most situations... (except for short pipes between tanks perhaps ?)

[tiriscef]

Hey. I want to suggest moving the auto factory from pyCoal to pyIndustry, because it's basicly a very stylish assembly machine that makes the vanilla assembly machine look kinda boring.

[vislle]

Am I blocked? possible bug A PY-mod run only, without Hi-Tech.
Now I´m working in the aramid recipe that need MOLYBDENUM PLATE but one of the stage to create it,at the filter building, We need vacuum but Vacuum is in the Diamond Mining a tier-3 science .

Tier 3 science need optical fibre and red circuit and both demand the Aramid Recipe.

I'm looking in FNEI any other way without luck.


Pd: The full run with all the PY-mods vacuum doesn't need any special technology.

[pyanodon]

fixed...update your mods plz.

[YunoAloe]

Burners produce 80 pollution/minute lately, this is too much.

burners-pollution.png (192.9 KiB) Viewed 7471 times

I didn't make 10+ times more burners at some point, that peak on the graph at 1.2 is some mod update.
This commit: https://github.com/pyanodon/pyindustry/ ... e14f8cac73

[YunoAloe]

I've seen burner's description was changed so I assume this was noticed. The problem is not so much in the cloud as in the evolution. I see that log production consumes pollution now, but to my understanding buildings that consume pollution don't negate the evolution, I've already stressed that for some other mod recently.

[YunoAloe]

Robots don't show what they're carrying anymore.

[sunfanel]

I haven't seen anything pertaining to this so I'm just going to ask - is it intended for the 7000L fluid storage to only have two input/output pipes, only on one side?


I'm only asking because it's the only fluid container other than the 1000L one with only two pipe connections and there are two valves on both of the long sides, neither of which can be used. Not that it's life changing mind you, it just seems out of place.

[kingarthur]

I haven't seen anything pertaining to this so I'm just going to ask - is it intended for the 7000L fluid storage to only have two input/output pipes, only on one side?


I'm only asking because it's the only fluid container other than the 1000L one with only two pipe connections and there are two valves on both of the long sides, neither of which can be used. Not that it's life changing mind you, it just seems out of place.

pretty sure i asked the same question a long time ago and its very very intentional as pyanodon is evil

[Cadde]

Niobium pipes break fluid mechanics.
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I know this is a late reply but this is by game design.

First and foremost, as far as rate of flow goes, all "naturally aspirated" (I.E, not pumps, not machines, not one way pipes etc) fluid boxes that share the same base level (height above sea level) depend entirely on how much of the fluid box is full.

So for example, a 100 unit pipe that has 50 fluid in it is 50% full.
A 100,000 unit tank that has 50 fluid in it is 0.05% full.
A 400 unit pipe with 50 fluid in it is 12.5% full.

Fluids will flow from one fluid box (A) to another (B) when A has a higher fill percentage than B.
As such, a vanilla pipe with 50 fluid will drain into a niobium pipe that had 50 fluid in it. Even though the niobium pipe already has 50 fluid.
With this knowledge, you can at a glance, determine just how full your entire fluid network is. (between pumps and machines etc)

The speed at which fluids travel is determined by the fluids viscosity (which from what i have seen, is at the default 0.59 for every fluid) and the pipes current fill level vs it's neighboring pipe.
So if one pipe is 51% full and the next pipe is 49% full, the flow will be miniscule between them. Whereas a pipe that is 100% full encounters a neighbor that is 0% full will almost immediately balance out their fill levels. (Overshooting slightly)

For each tick this imbalance exists (say one pipe is 100% full and the next is 0% full every tick) there's a bonus to flow rate. This is why pipes "overshoot"/"slush" a bit. The maximum flow rate with the current (old) fluid mechanics is somewhere around 97.5 units/tick. Regardless of how big the pipe or storage tank is.
In the 100% -> 0% example, 50 units of fluid is moved to balance the two fluid boxes percentages out. And another 47.5 is moved as a bonus because flow has been going that way for some 200 ish ticks. (IIRC)

All that goes out the window as soon as pumps are introduced, pumps will (try to) suck 100% of the fluid from one pipe and deposit it into the output fluid network.
Pumps can store 200 units of fluid so they can only ever suck 200 units per tick and deposit it at the output. So their maximum flow rate is 200 units/tick which is twice as fast as naturally aspirated pipes. However, it doesn't matter if the input is 50% full and the output is 95% full, the pump WILL push 200 units/tick if there is room for the units of fluid at the output.

So if you set up this:



Assuming the final destination has room for it...

The vanilla pipes will transfer 100 units/tick always.
The niobium pipes will transfer 200 units/tick always.

DO NOTE The actual figures are not 100 or 200 units/tick because there's actually pipes between the pumps. Even a single pipe will affect the flow rate negatively, even a tank will however tanks are so massive compared to the pumps that the flow rate is barely affected with huge storages.
Even if you string pumps together end to end, the output fluid box of a pump will affect the flow somewhat... Unless you mod the pump is such a way that the output has a higher base level than the rest of the network.

It's all Factorio fluid mechanics and this explains why niobium pipes are slower at long distances. You will notice the difference once you've put pumps after every underground iron pipe and at every bend to get as close to 100 units/tick as you possibly can. And then when that isn't enough flow rate for you, you'd go for niobium pipes to reach the pumps maximum of 200 units/tick.
And if you are using bob's logistics or some other pump mod, the niobium pipes are capable of handling 24,000 units/second. If you use better pumps than that you'd start using storage tanks between each pump... Or find a bigger pipe.

[mathiaszealot]

I haven't seen anything pertaining to this so I'm just going to ask - is it intended for the 7000L fluid storage to only have two input/output pipes, only on one side?

I'm only asking because it's the only fluid container other than the 1000L one with only two pipe connections and there are two valves on both of the long sides, neither of which can be used. Not that it's life changing mind you, it just seems out of place.

There are several odd choices with Py's tanks, and in my opinion most of them have to do with the 3000L tank being better than everything else, in large part because of it's tiny footprint. You can fit 3x3000L tanks in less space than the 7000L tank takes up. This is effectively the case for every tank larger than the 3000L. They really need a balancing pass. The following is the footprint in concrete and connection points in pipe of each of the tanks in Py. The 3000L tanks in each footprint hold equal or more volume than the tank they're replacing while taking up fewer tiles.



While I know Py is busy with PyAL right now, I'd like to propose some new volumes for the tanks that make for a more reasonable total volume and volume density progression for larger tanks, while not leaving the smaller tanks useless. This has the added advantage of making larger tanks take less materials per volume stored.

[pyanodon]

I like when people dont just point whats wrong, but also propose solutions. These seems reasonable ones, theres only one issue with them. I wont re-render the graphics for these tanks again, so they will keep their appearance, which for some people it will looks like odd. But if people agree, i will open a poll and see if the majority approve your suggestions.

[kingarthur]

I like when people dont just point whats wrong, but also propose solutions. These seems reasonable ones, theres only one issue with them. I wont re-render the graphics for these tanks again, so they will keep their appearance, which for some people it will looks like odd. But if people agree, i will open a poll and see if the majority approve your suggestions.

Wouldn't be that hard to have a setting to switch back to the "correct" size for the tanks as they are now

[MrPlate]

Looking at the resource used to craft them may do the deal.