Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

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patrick12222010
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Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by patrick12222010 »

I found a blueprint by Pieter van Ginkel, https://factorioprints.com/view/-L-maGtV6rlDNTQ1zQHq
I modified it a bit for 0.17. Here it is:
Previous Post

UPDATE!

Now, I created something a lot bigger. Behold:

Image
Now, for the computations
In game screen shot

Still there are people who would want to push coal liquefaction to its limits. See this below post. There is a major discussion also to convert to rocket fuel or not.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71823
Last edited by patrick12222010 on Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Zaflis
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Zaflis »

So going by kirk's calculation 4.62 rocket fuels means that we first have 33 solid fuel. I'll deal with that math later because it's same with both, but the assembling into rocket fuel means:
Energy cost of 66.2 MW + 8 beacons = 70.04 MW.
How much energy is in rocket fuels: 4.62 * 100 MJ = 462 MJ
33 solid fuels each make 12 MJ so they total 396 MJ.
Difference between rocket fuels and solid fuels is 462 MJ - 396 MJ = 66 MJ.
Now, i'm not perfect with math and physics equations, but we can match MW and MJ right? If it costs over 70 MW to convert it to rocket fuel, the gain of 66 MJ is exceeded. Therefore solid fuel would have been 4.04 MJ more efficient. That's very tiny amount though, about equal to 1 piece of coal. So if you like rocket fuel, sure it still seems worthy investment i guess at least because it's more compressed.

So how much does it cost to produce 33 solid fuels?
20 MW + 1.3 MW + 8.7 MW + 4 MW + (8+8+10+8=34) beacons
= 34 MW + 16.32 MW = 50.32 MW
So reduce the 50.32 MW from (462-70.04) or 396 to get total gain of each fuel.
Rocket fuel: 341.64 MJ (over-unity: 2.84)
Solid fuel: 345.68 MJ (over-unity: 6.87)

Edit: Oops, if you have 18 assemblers and each are affected by 8 beacons, that doesn't mean there are total 8 beacons... More like 38 or 40 maybe? That's going to swing it heavily in favor of solid fuel. mistakes
Last edited by Zaflis on Mon May 27, 2019 9:25 am, edited 4 times in total.
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patrick12222010
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by patrick12222010 »

What do you mean by heavily favor to solid fuel?
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Zaflis »

patrick12222010 wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 3:31 am What do you mean by heavily favor to solid fuel?
42beacon.png
42beacon.png (116.84 KiB) Viewed 9197 times
I only counted energy cost of 8 beacons, but it appears there are 42. The speed bonus of the all 42 was already count by kirkmcdonald, so that is 34 additional beacons, which means +16.32 MW. We'll replace all number 70.04 MW with 86.36 MW.

Without counting beacons power consumption, the gain of making power with rocket fuel is still 66 MJ.
But with beacons that is now 66 MJ - 86.36 MJ = -20.36 MJ , which is how much less 4.62 rocket fuels make compared to 33 solid fuel.

And i didn't even count beacons used in oil processing in making solid fuel, so i can't even tell the total gains of either fuel. Oh, laying the assemblers and beacons in "double-burger" layout may reduce number of beacons you need, but i'm done testing :P
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patrick12222010
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by patrick12222010 »

Looks like spreadsheet is needed... I'll plop this down and compute. ;)
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by patrick12222010 »

I updated the post and used in game measurements. This should give us more accurate computations.
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by El_Maximo_Bango »

I'm fairly new to all this, but how do the Assembling Machines get fed light oil?

I can't see a way to get the light oil into them?
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Trific »

El_Maximo_Bango wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:50 am I'm fairly new to all this, but how do the Assembling Machines get fed light oil?

I can't see a way to get the light oil into them?
Level 2 and 3 assembling machines have one liquid input. It doesn't show up until you choose a recipe that has a liquid component (like rocket fuel).
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by El_Maximo_Bango »

Trific wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:07 am
El_Maximo_Bango wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:50 am I'm fairly new to all this, but how do the Assembling Machines get fed light oil?

I can't see a way to get the light oil into them?
Level 2 and 3 assembling machines have one liquid input. It doesn't show up until you choose a recipe that has a liquid component (like rocket fuel).
Yeah, I can see the inputs, but I more meant where does the light oil come from? There doesn't seem to be enough room for any pipes to feed into the assemblers?
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Trific »

El_Maximo_Bango wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:29 am
Yeah, I can see the inputs, but I more meant where does the light oil come from? There doesn't seem to be enough room for any pipes to feed into the assemblers?
Prior to 0.17.60 rocket fuel didn't require light oil. This is a pretty old post.
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by El_Maximo_Bango »

Trific wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:36 am
El_Maximo_Bango wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:29 am
Yeah, I can see the inputs, but I more meant where does the light oil come from? There doesn't seem to be enough room for any pipes to feed into the assemblers?
Prior to 0.17.60 rocket fuel didn't require light oil. This is a pretty old post.
Ahh, that would explain it. Thank you.

I'll be doing a lot of rebuilding!
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Vector6 »

I patched this up to work with the current version. There are now pipes running between the bottom two rows of assemblers(with the top row being mirrored against blank space). It still seems to work properly(putting in 6k coal got me 1030 rocket fuel, for 79 GJ profit if I did the math right).



My test run involved one rocket fuel each to the boilers and ten barrels of heavy oil for the initial catalysts. My count was based on what made it to the end of the belt, so it doesn't count the rocket fuel used for keeping the boilers running. I didn't compute the energy cost, but it probably hasn't changed appreciably.
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Re: Coal to Rocket Fuel using Coal Liquefaction, Over-unity Gain!

Post by Impatient »

Raiguard's mod Rate calculator can calculate the power consumption for you. You only need to select the area you want to be included. Very handy.
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