[MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

[ownlyme]

Just for a mod I'm working on, I don't like any nuclear-fuel-cycle mods out there, so I'm trying to make my own. I really like the Realistic Reactors and want it to work with it.

Basically want to use your breeder reactor for weapons grade plutonium manufacture. Either adding a "breeder" fuel category to just the breeder reactor or possibly changing the burn result for normal uranium fuel cell when it is burnt in the breeder reactor (not sure if even possible).

I wanted to get a little closer to reality with the plutonium stuff, but not too complicated either.

Unfortunately i just found out that the new "heat interface" entity was a huge disappointment. So you probably can't expect a rewrite of our code.
But you can check if realistic reactors is installed and patch our entities to also support your fuel cell type.
you need to patch "realistic-reactor-normal", "realistic-reactor-breeder" and "realistic-reactor-1" up to "realistic-reactor-250"

[Davv]

@ownlyme fixed on newest version of mod, tyvm

[liqo]

Hi, I'm enjoying your mod immensely, but can you tell us more about SCRAM settings? I'm not sure what each of the following does exactly and when you want to use which.

• Limit to current cell
• Stop half empty
• Consume additional cell
• Decay heat (v 1.0.x)

[ownlyme]

Hi, I'm enjoying your mod immensely, but can you tell us more about SCRAM settings? I'm not sure what each of the following does exactly and when you want to use which.

• Limit to current cell
• Stop half empty
• Consume additional cell
• Decay heat (v 1.0.x)

That setting determines what happens with the current fuel cell when you scram the reactor

• Limit to current cell - When the currently burning cell reaches 0 fuel value, the reactor stops immediately, even if you just started the scram 1 second ago.
• Stop half empty - The remaining fuel value gets re-used when you start the reactor again
• Consume additional cell - The reactor will consume another fuel cell when it's current fuel cell's fuel value reaches 0 - the remaining fuel value (when the reactor reaches a full stop) gets discarded (the discarding part is the difference to "stop half empty")
• Decay heat (v 1.0.x) - It will stop burning fuel cells immediately and the decay heat (for the duration of the scram) gets simulated unrealistically

my favorite setting is "Stop half empty"

[liqo]

Thanks! Stop half-empty is my favorite now too Under what circumstances you want to burn additional cell? And what do you mean by unrealistic simulation during decay heat?

Also today I was dumbfounded what is happening in my ECS setup, after some troubleshooting I believe there is cross-leaking between two adjacent cooling towers in the middle of my setup, even though their inputs and outputs mismatch. I hope following video illustrate it clearly: https://youtu.be/b05DBm4rPS0

[liqo]

Also I was testing different fuel cells (MadClown's Nuclear Extension with Angel's and Bob's) and when inducing SCRAM signal to reactors operating on MOX fuel cells, the reactor almost instantly jumps up 20°C which makes my reactors operating at 980°C go boom I just want to ask if is this intended behavior to make us lower the operating temperature of MOX cell reactors?

EDIT: Confirmed experimentally, before SCRAM it has been running stable at 950°C, added screenshot.

[IngoKnieto]

Also today I was dumbfounded what is happening in my ECS setup, after some troubleshooting I believe there is cross-leaking between two adjacent cooling towers in the middle of my setup, even though their inputs and outputs mismatch. I hope following video illustrate it clearly: https://youtu.be/b05DBm4rPS0

Jep, that is a bug, I can reproduce that. The outputs of the one tower seem to be directly connecting to the other tower, and not to its inputs.
We'll see if we can fix this somehow...

[Light]

I'm aware my post may be beyond the scope of this mods intent, but given I haven't played in some time I noticed that Bob has added new reactors which undermine this one by quite a fair bit from what I've glanced at. It also prohibits thorium fuel being used in your reactors as well.

I was wondering if you had any intention to incorporate the different fuels to achieve different reactor results without having several separate reactor entities as he currently does. Given uranium and thorium already had a difference in heat values months ago I'd assume this is easy to implement with his newer fuels, though the update was a while back and I didn't see mention of it.

Sometimes the balance of Bob's can be a bit touchy, so I'd have faith you'd find the perfect formulas to entice using the different fuels without just a single fuel being the "best" and only option.

[IngoKnieto]

Also today I was dumbfounded what is happening in my ECS setup, after some troubleshooting I believe there is cross-leaking between two adjacent cooling towers in the middle of my setup, even though their inputs and outputs mismatch. I hope following video illustrate it clearly: https://youtu.be/b05DBm4rPS0

Jep, that is a bug, I can reproduce that. The outputs of the one tower seem to be directly connecting to the other tower, and not to its inputs.
We'll see if we can fix this somehow...

Fixed in version 2.17.5. Please test

[IngoKnieto]

I'm aware my post may be beyond the scope of this mods intent, but given I haven't played in some time I noticed that Bob has added new reactors which undermine this one by quite a fair bit from what I've glanced at. It also prohibits thorium fuel being used in your reactors as well.

I was wondering if you had any intention to incorporate the different fuels to achieve different reactor results without having several separate reactor entities as he currently does. Given uranium and thorium already had a difference in heat values months ago I'd assume this is easy to implement with his newer fuels, though the update was a while back and I didn't see mention of it.

Sometimes the balance of Bob's can be a bit touchy, so I'd have faith you'd find the perfect formulas to entice using the different fuels without just a single fuel being the "best" and only option.

We are certainly willing to maintain compatibility with as much mods as possible, the problem is just that neither of us plays with Bobs mods.
But if you can provide us some more information we can try to fix this.

If I see it correct we'd have to take care of two things:
1. Fuel cell type
Our reactors accept all fuel cells wich are: fuel_category = "nuclear". Adding additional fuel categories is possible if we know their names. Can you provides these names?
Hover the mouse over all the different reactors in Bobs and then run this command:

Code: Select all

/c for cat,_ in pairs(game.player.selected.prototype.burner_prototype.fuel_categories) do game.print(cat) end

2. Balancing
Depends on what mode (Ingos formulas, Ownlys formulars) you play with:
2 a) Ingos formulas
Balancing the normal reactor should not be as much of an issue* as the output doesn't change with the fuel cell type. The fuel cell is just burned for its energy value. Same goes for the breeder reactor. Just the additional fuel cell output of the breeder reactor needs to be balanced.
2 b) Ownlys formulas
Here it is more difficult as both reactors have different output (power and efficiency) per fuel cell type. If the fuel cell type is not included there is a default output, but I think all fuel cells from Bob would need to be included and testet.


*PS: ... if the energy value of the cell is balanced with its production costs. I just assume every fuel cell modder does this ... also I'm a bit too lazy to include all modded cells

[ownlyme]

Also I was testing different fuel cells (MadClown's Nuclear Extension with Angel's and Bob's) and when inducing SCRAM signal to reactors operating on MOX fuel cells, the reactor almost instantly jumps up 20°C which makes my reactors operating at 980°C go boom I just want to ask if is this intended behavior to make us lower the operating temperature of MOX cell reactors?

EDIT: Confirmed experimentally, before SCRAM it has been running stable at 950°C, added screenshot.

Can you upload your savegame please?
I wasn't able to reproduce this behaviour with any setting or fuel cell

[Light]

If I see it correct we'd have to take care of two things:
1. Fuel cell type
Our reactors accept all fuel cells wich are: fuel_category = "nuclear". Adding additional fuel categories is possible if we know their names. Can you provides these names?
Hover the mouse over all the different reactors in Bobs and then run this command:

Code: Select all

/c for cat,_ in pairs(game.player.selected.prototype.burner_prototype.fuel_categories) do game.print(cat) end

The script failed but I obtained the names from the bobplates mod.

thorium-fuel-cell
thorium-plutonium-fuel-cell
deuterium-fuel-cell

All three fuel categories are nuclear, though none will enter your reactor.

2. Balancing
Depends on what mode (Ingos formulas, Ownlys formulars) you play with:
2 a) Ingos formulas
Balancing the normal reactor should not be as much of an issue* as the output doesn't change with the fuel cell type. The fuel cell is just burned for its energy value. Same goes for the breeder reactor. Just the additional fuel cell output of the breeder reactor needs to be balanced.
2 b) Ownlys formulas
Here it is more difficult as both reactors have different output (power and efficiency) per fuel cell type. If the fuel cell type is not included there is a default output, but I think all fuel cells from Bob would need to be included and testet.

It seems pretty straightforward that thorium is the Mk2 and deuterium is the Mk3 of the reactor hierarchy. Nevertheless, here's the numbers used by the fuels and reactors to assist with Ownly's formula.

Reactors Consumption:
Uranium: 40MW
Thorium: 72MW
Deuterium: 90MW

Fuel Cells:
Uranium: 8GJ
Thorium: 6GJ (Perhaps Ingo's formula could modify it to 12GJ like MadClown's for at least some benefit)
Thorium-Plutonium: 40GJ
Deuterium: 100GJ

It's quite alright if you don't intend to support these beyond the fuel cells themselves. I just wanted to bring it up since I'd hate to lose what this mod brings to the table once thorium fuel is researched.

[IngoKnieto]

I just tested it using only Bobs Plates and Bobs Ores (otherwise Thorium cells are deactivated), and for me it works:

cells.png (199.19 KiB) Viewed 7832 times

deuterium.png (133.14 KiB) Viewed 7832 times

Can you reproduce this with only the two mods? Maybe another Bob mod is changing the fuel categories, but only with these two it should work as the categories are the same.

[Light]

I just tested it using only Bobs Plates and Bobs Ores (otherwise Thorium cells are deactivated), and for me it works:

Can you reproduce this with only the two mods? Maybe another Bob mod is changing the fuel categories, but only with these two it should work as the categories are the same.

It appears Bob's Revamp mod changes the categories to thorium and deuterium by turning the Mk2/Mk3 reactors into specific types. Fortunately there's a setting checkbox to disable that and the fuels work just fine, though it's still unusual it's not part of the power mods settings which is what I looked at first.

That issue is now solved.

[IngoKnieto]

I just tested it using only Bobs Plates and Bobs Ores (otherwise Thorium cells are deactivated), and for me it works:

Can you reproduce this with only the two mods? Maybe another Bob mod is changing the fuel categories, but only with these two it should work as the categories are the same.

It appears Bob's Revamp mod changes the categories to thorium and deuterium by turning the Mk2/Mk3 reactors into specific types. Fortunately there's a setting checkbox to disable that and the fuels work just fine, though it's still unusual it's not part of the power mods settings which is what I looked at first.

That issue is now solved.

Are the names of these categories "thorium" and "deuterium" ?
If we know the names we can include them...

[Light]

I just tested it using only Bobs Plates and Bobs Ores (otherwise Thorium cells are deactivated), and for me it works:

Can you reproduce this with only the two mods? Maybe another Bob mod is changing the fuel categories, but only with these two it should work as the categories are the same.

It appears Bob's Revamp mod changes the categories to thorium and deuterium by turning the Mk2/Mk3 reactors into specific types. Fortunately there's a setting checkbox to disable that and the fuels work just fine, though it's still unusual it's not part of the power mods settings which is what I looked at first.

That issue is now solved.

Are the names of these categories "thorium" and "deuterium" ?
If we know the names we can include them...

Correct.

[liqo]

Can you upload your savegame please?
I wasn't able to reproduce this behaviour with any setting or fuel cell

I'm sorry, I wasn't able to reproduce it either Most likely it was caused by my flawed designed under specific circumstances, my bet is that one block of reactors leaked its heat via heatpipe to another connected block and their respective ON/OFF(scram) cycles weren't in sync. I'm sorry I bothered you. Also since then I figured out how to upgrade my design so this scenario however improbable can not result in overheating of the cores.

[liqo]

Jep, that is a bug, I can reproduce that. The outputs of the one tower seem to be directly connecting to the other tower, and not to its inputs.
We'll see if we can fix this somehow...

Fixed in version 2.17.5. Please test

I guess v2.17.5 is just for Factorio v0.17.x ? I'm still playing v0.16.51 waiting for 0.17 to become "stable", because I use lots of mods and I haven't wanted to deal with any issues.

[aka13]

Hello guys,

FIrst of all, thank you for the brilliant mod. I love it already, albeit I have not yet built a reactor.

I have two questions - first of all, this "efficiency". I understand the number, but what does it mean in practical terms? Efficiency of 200% means a cell lasts for 400 seconds, efficiency of 50% means a cell lasts for 100s?
Or is it "how much energy a cell provides, 8GJ multiplied by the efficiency factor"?

I have built a setup in creative mode, using ingos formulas, with a reactor and a cooling tower, set it to cool if it reaches >500C. Now what happens is, the default cell lasts for 300s. Assuming that the pump takes some ticks to kick in, and efficiency then jumping around 115% propably, the 8GJ*by 113% would give about 9GJ instead, which would correspond with the second hypothesis, since the power output in that temperature segment * by 300s that the cell lasted would make around that power.

I have then tried to insert a cell from the Plutonium Energy mod, and it does not seem to work, specifically "The nuclear reactor can't use Unknown key "fuel-category-name.PE-MOX" fuel. I have checked noth mods and spoke to Plutonium Energy Author, and it seems that in latest patches he changed the fuel_category to "PE-MOX" from "MOX". I tried making a change into your mod myself, changing

Code: Select all

if data.raw["fuel-category"]["MOX"] then
	table.insert(reactor_template.energy_source.fuel_categories,"MOX")
end

to

Code: Select all

if data.raw["fuel-category"]["PE-MOX"] then
	table.insert(reactor_template.energy_source.fuel_categories,"PE-MOX")
end

,

but it did not work. Do you mind fixing that? It would be great. I have no experience with factorio mod writing, so it does not always make sense to me.

I have then also checked how you algorithm would work with the 20gj plutonium cell the mod is offering, and to my understanding there is no specific formula for it. Am I missing something, or is it intended? It seems to me, that if it would work, it would output the same energy as a uranium cell does, but for a longer period of time.

Also, I am wondering, what these lines do:

Code: Select all

data.raw["heat-pipe"]["heat-pipe"].boiler = "1MJ"
data.raw["boiler"]["heat-exchanger"].energy_source.specific_heat = "1MJ"

What do these do in data.lua? I am not certain. I tried analyzing the data.raw, and finding the parameters, but the first one seems nonexistant, and the second one seems to be 1MJ in data.raw per default?

[ownlyme]

Hello guys,

FIrst of all, thank you for the brilliant mod. I love it already, albeit I have not yet built a reactor.

I have two questions - first of all, this "efficiency". I understand the number, but what does it mean in practical terms? Efficiency of 200% means a cell lasts for 400 seconds, efficiency of 50% means a cell lasts for 100s?
Or is it "how much energy a cell provides, 8GJ multiplied by the efficiency factor"?

yes, both.
200% efficiency = 16GJ and 400 seconds

I have then tried to insert a cell from the Plutonium Energy mod, and it does not seem to work, specifically "The nuclear reactor can't use Unknown key "fuel-category-name.PE-MOX" fuel. I have checked noth mods and spoke to Plutonium Energy Author, and it seems that in latest patches he changed the fuel_category to "PE-MOX" from "MOX". I tried making a change into your mod myself, changing

Code: Select all

if data.raw["fuel-category"]["MOX"] then
	table.insert(reactor_template.energy_source.fuel_categories,"MOX")
end

to

Code: Select all

if data.raw["fuel-category"]["PE-MOX"] then
	table.insert(reactor_template.energy_source.fuel_categories,"PE-MOX")
end

,

but it did not work. Do you mind fixing that? It would be great. I have no experience with factorio mod writing, so it does not always make sense to me.

I have then also checked how you algorithm would work with the 20gj plutonium cell the mod is offering, and to my understanding there is no specific formula for it. Am I missing something, or is it intended? It seems to me, that if it would work, it would output the same energy as a uranium cell does, but for a longer period of time.

your code should actually work.. no idea why it doesn't
the plutonium energy mod gets updated so often that it's not feasible to update our mod every time.

Also, I am wondering, what these lines do:

Code: Select all

data.raw["heat-pipe"]["heat-pipe"].boiler = "1MJ"
data.raw["boiler"]["heat-exchanger"].energy_source.specific_heat = "1MJ"

What do these do in data.lua? I am not certain. I tried analyzing the data.raw, and finding the parameters, but the first one seems nonexistant, and the second one seems to be 1MJ in data.raw per default?

this just resets the heat pipes and exchangers to their vanilla values, since some mods decrease it which makes big reactors impossible.