Development and Discussion

[mrvn]

Congrats! I agree with putting it up on GitHub as there's a lot of small bugfixes that could be easily done by others but currently we can't even submit pull requests. From there, having a trusted other modder or three to manage the code seems like a good plan.

You ... could just unzip it, and send a patch? I mean, if you can master github I'm pretty sure traditional diff/patch isn't gonna be that much of a stretch.

Pull requests can be peer reviewed and tested by others while they wait to be accepted. Big help for everyone.

[slippycheeze]

Congrats! I agree with putting it up on GitHub as there's a lot of small bugfixes that could be easily done by others but currently we can't even submit pull requests. From there, having a trusted other modder or three to manage the code seems like a good plan.

You ... could just unzip it, and send a patch? I mean, if you can master github I'm pretty sure traditional diff/patch isn't gonna be that much of a stretch.

Pull requests can be peer reviewed and tested by others while they wait to be accepted. Big help for everyone.

I'm pretty sure everyone who can manage github can also manage to download patches posted publicly and apply them, but ... I'm not gonna argue github wouldn't be more familiar to folks.

[equitime77]

Great sound effects on the puffer regiume lol

[alercah]

Okay, fair, it's not so much "can't" as do not feel welcome to.

[Light]

I'm content with any solution that keeps Angel's development on track at a quicker pace.

Bio industries has been neglected so long and it's one of my favourite concepts by using nature to solve problems using cleaner and renewable resources instead. Allowing the community to provide some development would finally give the mod some greater substance without the continued wait.

[safan]

0.17.60 changed the blue science pack recipe. I'll have to rework that since i move sulfuric acid, and voided excess waste water ...

[Astrella]

Another vote in for github. And congrats Angel, and thanks for all the work you've done on these mods.

[alercah]

The sulfur change really means that development needs to resume somehow, since it really upsets the current balance.

I'd be tempted to set up a repo and start development in advance of receiving Angel's blessing, so that the community could start contributing bugfixes and possible solutions to the sulfur issue, but unfortunately the licensing terms of the mods don't permit it.

[BlueTemplar]

State of the mod

A bit of talk to let you know what is going with the mod and myself in the background:
So first off to the time mangement,I started off with the mods when I was studying which meant I had a lot of time at hand to do stuff beside university,
when I dropped out of that and started working full time again, time I had for modding reduced drastically. Starting of the year I re-enrolled to university again to finish my degree, which everyone can imagine reduce the time I have by alot again. I can see and feel this myself currently because I'm not doing new stuff, if I have some spare time I do bugfixes and adjustments to the latest changes to the vanilla game as well as to bobs.
And the latest news is that I'm going to be a dad start of next year. Which again will reduce the time I have for modding to -9000.
I'm currently thinking about ways on how to progress in the future. Obviously I need help, if not having to give the mods to someone else to continue with, the other option would be to have it come to a close and call it done.
This has been mostly a one man project with some addition from the outside (some models yuoki provided, override functions by exasperation and some bits here and there from various other people) all the way up until now, transitioning this to be a project will be difficult.
I'm more than happy to hear suggestions or ideas on how the future might look like for angels mods.

Good luck with the university, and congratulations for your upcoming dadness !

Please don't give in to the Microsoft-assimilated GitHub borg, there are many alternative options out there, even if you intend to use a git-based system (which I do recommend) !

See for instance logicarts, for which you did the graphics.

[Light]

The sulfur change really means that development needs to resume somehow, since it really upsets the current balance.

I'd be tempted to set up a repo and start development in advance of receiving Angel's blessing, so that the community could start contributing bugfixes and possible solutions to the sulfur issue, but unfortunately the licensing terms of the mods don't permit it.

There is no sulfur issue, you just don't know how Angel's works and how the balance is actually improved by this change. That is a fortunate thing with regards to the license preventing inexperienced people from making unnecessary and balance breaking changes.

It's best to leave development to the experienced bunch who understand Angel's balancing and design philosophy. That way Angel's doesn't get ruined by the same mindset that currently plagues vanilla development.

[alercah]

The point of making a new repository would just be to get things moving, not to claim that I'm the best balancer out there. I don't have the experience in play to claim that I'm anything close to the best balancer out there.

[Moderated by Koub] I did not make any claim to being the best at balancing out there. However, assuming I take your argument, and if we were to get permission to make such a repository, perhaps the first change should be to revert the recipe on the science packs. This would ensure that Angel's balancing and design philosophy on the science pack recipes shine through, [Moderated by Koub]

[Light]

The point of making a new repository would just be to get things moving, not to claim that I'm the best balancer out there. I don't have the experience in play to claim that I'm anything close to the best balancer out there.

Your insulting condescension is unwarranted and unappreciated, given that I did not make any claim to being the best at balancing out there. However, assuming I take your argument, and if we were to get permission to make such a repository, perhaps the first change should be to revert the recipe on the science packs. This would ensure that Angel's balancing and design philosophy on the science pack recipes shine through, rather than being ruined by the mindset of the vanilla devs, which I'm now given to understand is plaguing development.

[Moderated by Koub]

My comment about the sulfur was directed towards you with the rest as a general statement. I'm aware that Angel has picked some successors who are well versed in the mods and thus should continue the development under their experience. Hand picking those who are experienced to contribute rather than opening it to all would likely be for the best, as not everyone can be trusted to know the inner workings quite as well. I've already met one of them and was pleased to know it's in good hands thus far, though I'm uncertain when the mantle is to be passed down.

Honestly, the sulfur for science recipe has little impact on Angel's given how sulfur is the easiest item to get in an Angel's game. Whether they choose to revert it is up to them, though it wouldn't make much of a difference either way. Angel's balance is fortunately maintained or even improved by the change, though one wonders what the future might hold.

[alercah]

If Angel has already decided how to proceed, that hasn't been made known to the readers of this thread, so conversations here are taking place without that knowledge.

[Koub]

[Koub] Please behave. Remain respectful and calm.

[lovely_santa]

If Angel has already decided how to proceed, that hasn't been made known to the readers of this thread, so conversations here are taking place without that knowledge.

Let me clear some of those conserns:

1. Angel has already a repository with all his mods (I got even write access as I got collab mods with him)
2. Yes he is thinking of maybe making a small dev team to maintain his mods, BUT:
   • He's thinking about what parts to carry on and what will go on the scrap pile
   • He's thinking to make or not to make extensions from the leftovers

So no he's not gonna go blindly give up the mods, the whole mod was/is working in 0.17.59. 0.17.60 just came out, when was the last time you got an update the day after a game changing base game update came out... Give him time, give bobbingabout time... And when time comes, I'm sure angel will post a discission update.

[BlueTemplar]

My comment about the sulfur was directed towards you with the rest as a general statement. I'm aware that Angel has picked some successors who are well versed in the mods and thus should continue the development under their experience. Hand picking those who are experienced to contribute rather than opening it to all would likely be for the best, as not everyone can be trusted to know the inner workings quite as well. I've already met one of them and was pleased to know it's in good hands thus far, though I'm uncertain when the mantle is to be passed down.

Modern collaboration tools allow for multiple levels of collaboration :
https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/permissions.html

Honestly, the sulfur for science recipe has little impact on Angel's given how sulfur is the easiest item to get in an Angel's game. Whether they choose to revert it is up to them, though it wouldn't make much of a difference either way. Angel's balance is fortunately maintained or even improved by the change, though one wonders what the future might hold.

Unless maybe if you run out of coal and don't have oil/gas yet ?
Not sure about the amounts involved...

[ukezi]

You can also get sulfur out of ore processing. No need to process coal or gas/oil.

[BlueTemplar]

Yes, chunks - again, I wonder about the quantities... since they are often barely enough for infinite ore sulfuric acid needs ?
(There's also fish breeding, but IIRC that needs a LOT of energy ?)

[xfir01]

Yes, chunks - again, I wonder about the quantities... since they are often barely enough for infinite ore sulfuric acid needs ?
(There's also fish breeding, but IIRC that needs a LOT of energy ?)

You can make sulfur out of water using air filtration. Just takes a bit of fuel for the limestone furnaces, but even that can be made on site using a greenhouse.

[BlueTemplar]

Right, I didn't consider Blue Science (and later) techs... they're not that far IIRC ?